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the planets thought the Masters almost

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surely have a plan this clearly maybe

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something there beyond the realm of man

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tested every line the more you think you

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know the less you will be do that's true

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dr. Zaius

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because we know

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[Music]

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[Applause]

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all right higher side chatters it's no

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secret that the conspiratorial crowd has

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made many claims about the capstone

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cabal and the ruling elite class of past

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and present claims that range from a

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fascination with occult arts securing

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power through magic and making dark

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pacts with demonic multi-dimensional

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entities to selective breeding carefully

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preserving bloodlines and even that

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these psychopathic power players have

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some type of reptilian origin that might

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make them only half human and as we know

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it's very hard to find the smoking gun

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for these sorts of claims and we're left

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with the analysis of small breadcrumbs

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strange symbolism and the occasional

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promotion of ideas and motifs that seem

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completely foreign to anything we would

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recognize in the mainstream well folks

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it seems like a 15th century relic known

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as the soul of booshka taraji has broken

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free of its carefully maintained Chain

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of Custody behind the curtain as an

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aristocrat class magical heirloom to

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find itself on display at a Milan Museum

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in modern times and wouldn't you know it

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contains aspects of nearly all of those

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oh so strange conspiratorial claims

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lucky for us though the Royal worldview

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has carefully kept close to the chest

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and putting such a relic in its proper

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context seems like a monumental task

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today's guest Peter mark Adams is a

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brilliant esoteric scholar tarot expert

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professional energy worker and a cult

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symbol decoder that seriously dedicated

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himself to unpacking this deeply

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esoteric artifact fully drenched in the

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Demiurge and has released his analysis

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and conclusions in an epic and beautiful

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book titled the game of Saturn it's one

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of the most impressive pieces of work

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that I've seen in some time the

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implications are damn near unbelievable

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and I can't wait to get down to it a

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serious honour and a pleasure a master

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of his craft

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Peter Mark Adams welcome to the higher

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side hi there Greg lovely to talk to you

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yeah man I'm so happy to have you here

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scarlet imprint always seems to work

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with amazing authors and I'm really

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impressed with this book something that

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yeah I mean it is something I don't

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think I could put together if my life

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depended on it you know so really kudos

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to you thank you so much and you know to

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kick this off we really have to break

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this down for people but we're talking

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about an elaborately illustrated and

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decorated deck of cards that matches the

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structure of a classic tarot deck dating

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back to the Italian Renaissance I guess

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it's the oldest known deck of its type

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in existence

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you call it a Taraki because outside of

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that same basic structure it doesn't

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really have much else in common with

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traditional tarot is that right that's

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right there's about three cards in the

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deck that have a kind of passing

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similarity to the cards you'd expect to

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see amongst the trumps in a modern deck

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but apart from that everything else is

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utterly unique and it was that fact

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actually which really got me turned on

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to the task of trying to figure out why

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they've gone to such extraordinary cost

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investment of time the use of a

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Renaissance master engraver and yet the

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thing didn't make any sense so there's

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some had to be something going on here

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which I couldn't figure out and that

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really led me on down the rabbit hole to

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be honest I started to disappear from

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day to day living as I got engrossed in

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this thing you know

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yeah and eventually I was working like

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16 hours a day lost every day's a week

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it took me about three years to break

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into the decks heavily coded

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multi-layered symbolism mm-hmm it's so

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provocative and the artwork on the cards

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they depict everything from fairly

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innocent looking figures to decapitation

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and holding babies over fire pits yeah

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but I guess what about the artwork is so

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special not only from a Content

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perspective but a historical one as well

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yeah I mean this is the first it's the

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earliest complete tarot deck that exists

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that's one thing secondly it's been done

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by this Renaissance master engraver

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so the quality is absolutely superb and

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those two factors alone set the deck

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apart from really well everything else

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the third factor though it has no

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Christian imagery or symbolism in it

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whatsoever hmm and that is that is

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really exceptional I mean I can't think

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of another tarot deck in existence that

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doesn't include certain aspects of the

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Christian theology right I found that

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strange as well because

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I'm a little bit familiar with the Tarot

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and there's always that final judgment

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card at least which is a very Christian

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thing that's it and there's nothing like

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that in this deck and again that was

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another of the factors that drove me to

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try and figure out what the heck is

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going on with this thing hmm there's

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another factor as well Greg which is

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really strange this deck despite being a

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masterpiece of Renaissance art has no

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provenance whatsoever and like

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provenance is everything in the art game

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where did it come from where did it

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originate who is whose hands has it been

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in because this is a deck of cards that

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survived in tact for 500 years and

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nobody knows where it's been for at

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least 300 of those teams so there's a

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lot of mysteries there's a lot of locked

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boxes and it's like the wet dream for

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the esoteric researcher you know

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absolutely I can't claim to have cracked

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the whole thing III think I got most of

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the Trump and court cards decoded but

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there's a substantial and number of suit

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cards that still require work there's

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more to come always and so you know the

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main purpose of a typical Turo is

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divination but is there an indication

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that that is not the same purpose here

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or is this just a different form of

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divination I think people have always

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used different things around them for

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divinatory purposes you know whether

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it's coffee grounds or what the original

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decks were created for gaming that's

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where the the Tarot came from but of

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course because of the imagery because of

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its symbolic nature it lends itself to

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other uses specifically to divination I

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think that if I'm gonna like jump to the

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core of the thing what we're faced with

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here is something like an elite grimoire

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of surgical

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draconian magic hmm okay if I just like

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sum up the endpoint of my research and

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the question therefore is where did it

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come from how was it used and what was

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the intent of the designer mm-hmm in

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putting this thing together because it

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illuminates an aspect of the modern

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conspiracy world this this notion of a

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cult of Saturn yes it illuminates the

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origins of this thing which before now

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has been very nebulous right and it is

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such a amazing piece of history and

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amazing artifact for that reason and I

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guess I would also ask you because

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you're not the first person to look at

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00:08:06,930 --> 00:08:04,389
this deck what can you tell us about

186
00:08:09,180 --> 00:08:06,940
some of the theories about the deck and

187
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why it was created before you came along

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the things that you dismiss well the

189
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obvious thing is that you know nine of

190
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the trump cards depict figures connected

191
00:08:24,450 --> 00:08:21,940
with Roman Republican history so it's

192
00:08:27,749 --> 00:08:24,460
easy to dismiss the whole deck as an

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00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:27,759
educational deck but as an explanation

194
00:08:32,819 --> 00:08:30,490
it just doesn't stand up hmm how about

195
00:08:35,029 --> 00:08:32,829
the other you know trump cards how about

196
00:08:38,810 --> 00:08:35,039
all the court cards and the you know

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suit cards so you know the obvious

198
00:08:46,380 --> 00:08:43,779
explanation is to facile to suggest that

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00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:46,390
it's an educational deck also doesn't

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00:08:52,260 --> 00:08:48,850
take account of the homoerotic elements

201
00:08:57,630 --> 00:08:52,270
in its imagery you know it's a Christian

202
00:09:01,680 --> 00:08:57,640
stance and the fact that the trump cards

203
00:09:05,810 --> 00:09:01,690
that appear to named Roman figures have

204
00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:05,820
been spelt in such a way that you cannot

205
00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:08,290
immediately identify any particular

206
00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:10,930
person okay the Romans had a thing

207
00:09:17,670 --> 00:09:12,850
called the gens it was like a family

208
00:09:19,740 --> 00:09:17,680
name and because the Roman elite was

209
00:09:21,660 --> 00:09:19,750
governed by a very small number of

210
00:09:22,829 --> 00:09:21,670
families for a period of like five

211
00:09:26,069 --> 00:09:22,839
hundred years

212
00:09:30,540 --> 00:09:26,079
the gens doesn't give you any indication

213
00:09:33,300 --> 00:09:30,550
of of which member of the family within

214
00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:33,310
that five hundred years you know who it

215
00:09:36,689 --> 00:09:33,970
could be

216
00:09:38,939 --> 00:09:36,699
hmm so again it doesn't actually fulfill

217
00:09:41,550 --> 00:09:38,949
an educational purpose on that score

218
00:09:44,910 --> 00:09:41,560
either the other explanation is that

219
00:09:46,350 --> 00:09:44,920
it's another wedding present a kind of

220
00:09:49,439 --> 00:09:46,360
sumptuous wedding present like the

221
00:09:52,079 --> 00:09:49,449
Visconti sports a deck but again the

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00:09:54,869 --> 00:09:52,089
homoerotic imagery the baby getting

223
00:09:59,579 --> 00:09:54,879
cooked over the fire scenes of

224
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immolation and decapitation that would

225
00:10:04,410 --> 00:10:02,279
be some wedding present right right

226
00:10:08,249 --> 00:10:04,420
that's good instead you wouldn't be

227
00:10:11,340 --> 00:10:08,259
invited back true so they're the main

228
00:10:13,019 --> 00:10:11,350
lines that have been attempted to

229
00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:13,029
explain the imagery in this deck and

230
00:10:17,460 --> 00:10:15,490
they don't really work mm-hmm

231
00:10:20,639 --> 00:10:17,470
so there has to be a deeper game going

232
00:10:22,439 --> 00:10:20,649
on and another foundational thing that

233
00:10:25,470 --> 00:10:22,449
we should probably discuss with people

234
00:10:26,579 --> 00:10:25,480
or discuss for people is that there's

235
00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:26,589
also something that should be said about

236
00:10:30,900 --> 00:10:28,930
the historical context like not only the

237
00:10:32,910 --> 00:10:30,910
politics of the time but the attitudes

238
00:10:34,470 --> 00:10:32,920
about magical ritual and practice this

239
00:10:36,030 --> 00:10:34,480
kind of speaks to those homoerotic

240
00:10:37,740 --> 00:10:36,040
elements you mentioned but what do you

241
00:10:40,650 --> 00:10:37,750
think is important for people to know in

242
00:10:42,150 --> 00:10:40,660
that regard to place this back in its

243
00:10:45,449 --> 00:10:42,160
proper context of when it was actually

244
00:10:47,179 --> 00:10:45,459
made okay I mean if we're going to turn

245
00:10:50,519 --> 00:10:47,189
the clock back to 15th century

246
00:10:53,819 --> 00:10:50,529
Renaissance Europe and specifically to

247
00:10:58,079 --> 00:10:53,829
Italy magic in one form or other was

248
00:11:02,400 --> 00:10:58,089
pervasive at every level of society from

249
00:11:05,639 --> 00:11:02,410
the kind of folk healing folk witchcraft

250
00:11:08,100 --> 00:11:05,649
and Carlo Ginsberg has done excellent

251
00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:08,110
work in documenting some of the

252
00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:11,290
long-lived pagan witchcraft movements in

253
00:11:16,769 --> 00:11:14,170
Italy the Bernadotte see in the north of

254
00:11:19,939 --> 00:11:16,779
Italy we have the possession coat of

255
00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:19,949
Terrence's mo in the south of Italy and

256
00:11:27,449 --> 00:11:24,610
on top of this you have a layer of what

257
00:11:30,660 --> 00:11:27,459
I would call grimoire magic so that you

258
00:11:35,340 --> 00:11:30,670
find clerical scholars students monks

259
00:11:38,309 --> 00:11:35,350
priests specializing in ritual magic for

260
00:11:40,860 --> 00:11:38,319
hire okay so if you have any problems

261
00:11:43,379 --> 00:11:40,870
you go to them and they you know that

262
00:11:45,389 --> 00:11:43,389
you need a demon exercising or you want

263
00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:45,399
to summon a demon and send it against

264
00:11:49,280 --> 00:11:46,410
someone they

265
00:11:52,340 --> 00:11:49,290
use of attack sorcery these would be the

266
00:11:54,560 --> 00:11:52,350
go-to people for that and we have

267
00:11:57,230 --> 00:11:54,570
excellent testimony from the

268
00:12:00,860 --> 00:11:57,240
inquisitorial records for Modena and

269
00:12:04,250 --> 00:12:00,870
Bologna which demonstrate that these

270
00:12:06,950 --> 00:12:04,260
priests the ones who were recognized as

271
00:12:09,950 --> 00:12:06,960
wielding a lot of power in terms of

272
00:12:12,590 --> 00:12:09,960
demonic magic with very carefully

273
00:12:14,780 --> 00:12:12,600
protected by the elite mm-hmm

274
00:12:16,970 --> 00:12:14,790
their major sponsors were the elite

275
00:12:19,520 --> 00:12:16,980
families in fact and whenever an

276
00:12:22,760 --> 00:12:19,530
Inquisitor attempted to take one to

277
00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:22,770
court have them defrocked or whatever

278
00:12:26,930 --> 00:12:25,050
they could do against them the elite

279
00:12:29,810 --> 00:12:26,940
families always stepped in and put the

280
00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:29,820
case aside so they were well protected

281
00:12:36,590 --> 00:12:33,450
at the highest levels of the Renaissance

282
00:12:39,610 --> 00:12:36,600
Society right so that that's pretty well

283
00:12:43,220 --> 00:12:39,620
the pyramid as it were the background

284
00:12:45,950 --> 00:12:43,230
into which this deck which actually

285
00:12:49,490 --> 00:12:45,960
illustrates another strand and stream of

286
00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:49,500
magic coming from the east entered into

287
00:12:53,690 --> 00:12:52,290
and merged with mm-hmm yes that

288
00:12:55,970 --> 00:12:53,700
background makes it all the more

289
00:12:58,220 --> 00:12:55,980
provocative and when it comes to the

290
00:13:01,310 --> 00:12:58,230
decks influences and the worldview and

291
00:13:02,510 --> 00:13:01,320
ideas that it seems to contain you kind

292
00:13:04,310 --> 00:13:02,520
of break it down into three parts

293
00:13:06,470 --> 00:13:04,320
because it can get pretty complex but

294
00:13:08,810 --> 00:13:06,480
you talk about the decks cosmology its

295
00:13:10,940 --> 00:13:08,820
metaphysics and its ritual use and I

296
00:13:12,980 --> 00:13:10,950
think that's a pretty clear way to talk

297
00:13:16,370 --> 00:13:12,990
about such a dense item what would you

298
00:13:21,470 --> 00:13:16,380
say about its cosmology for example its

299
00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:21,480
wholly malefic and and it identifies a

300
00:13:26,630 --> 00:13:23,970
series of planets fixed stars and

301
00:13:30,710 --> 00:13:26,640
constellations that are the most malefic

302
00:13:33,560 --> 00:13:30,720
in terms of astral magic and it was this

303
00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:33,570
fact that gave me the first indication

304
00:13:40,100 --> 00:13:36,450
that what I was dealing with was a

305
00:13:44,030 --> 00:13:40,110
grimoire of elite sorcery of the dark is

306
00:13:46,460 --> 00:13:44,040
carried right okay so that's the

307
00:13:48,680 --> 00:13:46,470
cosmology that we have here mm-hmm

308
00:13:51,530 --> 00:13:48,690
the items you know you would find them

309
00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:51,540
in picker tricks or any of those classic

310
00:13:57,590 --> 00:13:54,810
texts of astral magic but the ones

311
00:14:00,140 --> 00:13:57,600
particularly picked out and illustrated

312
00:14:03,950 --> 00:14:00,150
within the deck are wholly malefic

313
00:14:06,620 --> 00:14:03,960
so I can't conceive of another use of

314
00:14:10,940 --> 00:14:06,630
those energies other than what they call

315
00:14:13,220 --> 00:14:10,950
maleficium attack sorcery right it's

316
00:14:15,019 --> 00:14:13,230
pretty cut and dry when it comes to the

317
00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:15,029
things they were trying to invoke it's

318
00:14:22,579 --> 00:14:18,330
just negativity across the board it

319
00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:22,589
seems it's it's an exercise in power I

320
00:14:26,990 --> 00:14:24,570
think when we look at these elite

321
00:14:29,780 --> 00:14:27,000
families you know we need to realize

322
00:14:32,060 --> 00:14:29,790
that they were not like a modern state

323
00:14:34,700 --> 00:14:32,070
they didn't function in that way they

324
00:14:37,970 --> 00:14:34,710
were far closer to the Godfather you

325
00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:37,980
know the the film D mafia hmm they had

326
00:14:45,350 --> 00:14:41,370
their beneficial side but they were

327
00:14:47,990 --> 00:14:45,360
capable of any kind of cruelty or evil

328
00:14:51,500 --> 00:14:48,000
mm-hmm these were the families from

329
00:14:54,590 --> 00:14:51,510
which Machiavelli drew the principles of

330
00:14:56,810 --> 00:14:54,600
governing just by observing them so on

331
00:14:59,320 --> 00:14:56,820
the one side they would have dynastic

332
00:15:02,480 --> 00:14:59,330
marriages they would have you know

333
00:15:04,579 --> 00:15:02,490
agreements treaties and so on but on the

334
00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:04,589
other side the flip side of the coin is

335
00:15:12,949 --> 00:15:06,810
their employment of poisonous you know

336
00:15:14,810 --> 00:15:12,959
sorcerers assassins spies so you know

337
00:15:17,570 --> 00:15:14,820
there's like two sides to the coin and

338
00:15:20,090 --> 00:15:17,580
and this deck illustrates this is why

339
00:15:23,620 --> 00:15:20,100
it's such a rare artifact a very dark

340
00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:23,630
side of the dark side of the coin mm-hmm

341
00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:26,850
but I want to qualify that and it's

342
00:15:31,730 --> 00:15:29,250
something probably we'll unpack as we go

343
00:15:35,390 --> 00:15:31,740
along way it is is to say that what this

344
00:15:39,410 --> 00:15:35,400
deck is exemplifying is not the

345
00:15:42,620 --> 00:15:39,420
traditional grimoire sorcery okay okay

346
00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:42,630
like the sorcerers these guys this elite

347
00:15:48,500 --> 00:15:45,930
employed had copies of like the Key of

348
00:15:51,230 --> 00:15:48,510
Solomon and Allen Bedell and and those

349
00:15:55,720 --> 00:15:51,240
kinda Tex classic grimoires you know

350
00:15:58,610 --> 00:15:55,730
this stuff is of an order above that in

351
00:16:01,310 --> 00:15:58,620
terms of its educational background its

352
00:16:03,500 --> 00:16:01,320
tradition and it's almost never been

353
00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:03,510
talked about in the context of the

354
00:16:08,900 --> 00:16:06,930
Western esoteric history before because

355
00:16:12,190 --> 00:16:08,910
it comes straight from the Byzantine

356
00:16:14,170 --> 00:16:12,200
elite Wow okay

357
00:16:16,750 --> 00:16:14,180
it's another thread it's not been

358
00:16:18,850 --> 00:16:16,760
thought about as far as I can see has

359
00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:18,860
not been identified as a major player

360
00:16:26,050 --> 00:16:22,370
amongst the elites of Europe before this

361
00:16:28,269 --> 00:16:26,060
deck is depicting a tradition which goes

362
00:16:31,449 --> 00:16:28,279
from orphism through the neo-platonists

363
00:16:36,250 --> 00:16:31,459
into the Byzantine Imperial elite and

364
00:16:39,069 --> 00:16:36,260
from them to Italy hmm man it is you

365
00:16:43,900 --> 00:16:39,079
know no small thing yeah dealing with an

366
00:16:47,199 --> 00:16:43,910
order of learned sorcery far above the

367
00:16:49,180 --> 00:16:47,209
popular grimoires mm-hmm and so to talk

368
00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:49,190
a little bit about kind of how they view

369
00:16:54,879 --> 00:16:52,130
reality structure you talk about how

370
00:16:57,400 --> 00:16:54,889
their view the view that's expressed in

371
00:17:00,519 --> 00:16:57,410
this deck is that souls are reincarnated

372
00:17:02,230 --> 00:17:00,529
and kind of the symbol of the exes where

373
00:17:04,059 --> 00:17:02,240
they see the Milky Way crossing with the

374
00:17:05,939 --> 00:17:04,069
path of the zodiac and that's the portal

375
00:17:09,069 --> 00:17:05,949
between the worlds this is a type of

376
00:17:11,789 --> 00:17:09,079
worldview or a cosmology that definitely

377
00:17:15,130 --> 00:17:11,799
wasn't taught to the masses it seems

378
00:17:18,250 --> 00:17:15,140
yeah this emerges directly from orphism

379
00:17:23,500 --> 00:17:18,260
so we're back in the 8th century BC at

380
00:17:25,870 --> 00:17:23,510
least and it's been picked up through

381
00:17:29,409 --> 00:17:25,880
figures like ferric ids Pythagoras's

382
00:17:32,230 --> 00:17:29,419
teacher Plato of course and the neo

383
00:17:34,930 --> 00:17:32,240
platonic philosophers after so there's a

384
00:17:39,190 --> 00:17:34,940
continuous tradition there until like

385
00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:39,200
the 6th century CE II so it's like 1200

386
00:17:43,990 --> 00:17:41,570
years old tradition at this point right

387
00:17:46,299 --> 00:17:44,000
ok and then there's an attempt by the

388
00:17:49,260 --> 00:17:46,309
Christian Emperor you know Justinian to

389
00:17:52,030 --> 00:17:49,270
stamp this out not very successful

390
00:17:54,549 --> 00:17:52,040
because the Byzantine elite and

391
00:17:57,190 --> 00:17:54,559
especially its Civil Service were

392
00:17:57,880 --> 00:17:57,200
thoroughly imbued with the values of

393
00:18:00,490 --> 00:17:57,890
Hellenism

394
00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:00,500
to enter the civil service you had to

395
00:18:05,799 --> 00:18:03,530
have a relevant number of years study of

396
00:18:09,070 --> 00:18:05,809
Hellenistic classical literature and

397
00:18:12,220 --> 00:18:09,080
philosophy and with that it's kind of

398
00:18:15,250 --> 00:18:12,230
you know in the kernel of it is paganism

399
00:18:18,130 --> 00:18:15,260
you can't extract it out of it if you're

400
00:18:22,090 --> 00:18:18,140
studying Plato you have paganism built

401
00:18:25,060 --> 00:18:22,100
in so to speak mm-hmm so it perpetuated

402
00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:25,070
itself well into the 15th century and

403
00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:25,730
you

404
00:18:32,169 --> 00:18:28,850
major figures in the Byzantium court at

405
00:18:35,860 --> 00:18:32,179
this time the imperial elite who are

406
00:18:37,539 --> 00:18:35,870
self declared pagans you know and again

407
00:18:41,799 --> 00:18:37,549
this doesn't quite fit in with our

408
00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:41,809
church written history of the times but

409
00:18:46,930 --> 00:18:43,850
nevertheless that's that's how things

410
00:18:48,909 --> 00:18:46,940
fell out right and you talked about

411
00:18:51,700 --> 00:18:48,919
Mithra cult which is something that I've

412
00:18:53,889 --> 00:18:51,710
had researchers dig up before and they

413
00:18:57,039 --> 00:18:53,899
some suggest it's a thread that still

414
00:19:01,659 --> 00:18:57,049
continues in the background today but to

415
00:19:03,730 --> 00:19:01,669
have these nods to a myth rayet cult at

416
00:19:05,169 --> 00:19:03,740
this time depth it is strange I mean

417
00:19:06,820 --> 00:19:05,179
that's just what you're saying this cult

418
00:19:10,570 --> 00:19:06,830
and these ideas should have been long

419
00:19:13,389 --> 00:19:10,580
gone by the 15th century gather well

420
00:19:15,820 --> 00:19:13,399
alive and they had a huge revival in the

421
00:19:18,549 --> 00:19:15,830
10th and 11th century with people like

422
00:19:21,310 --> 00:19:18,559
Michael pizzelles who recovered much of

423
00:19:23,379 --> 00:19:21,320
the literature but again our history

424
00:19:24,909 --> 00:19:23,389
lets us down Greg because you know we

425
00:19:26,799 --> 00:19:24,919
see people figures like Michael

426
00:19:31,180 --> 00:19:26,809
pizzelles who recovered the Chaldean

427
00:19:34,629 --> 00:19:31,190
Oracle's as standing alone we don't see

428
00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:34,639
them in context Micah Purcell has had

429
00:19:40,779 --> 00:19:38,570
teachers who inaugurated his interest in

430
00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:40,789
these ancient texts and ideas and and

431
00:19:46,180 --> 00:19:43,010
they had teachers and you know the

432
00:19:48,759 --> 00:19:46,190
golden thread runs back and forth back

433
00:19:50,980 --> 00:19:48,769
into the past and forward into

434
00:19:53,710 --> 00:19:50,990
contemporary history it's never broken

435
00:19:54,779 --> 00:19:53,720
and I think there's one good reason why

436
00:19:58,600 --> 00:19:54,789
that's the case

437
00:20:03,789 --> 00:19:58,610
the worldview that exists at the core of

438
00:20:06,399 --> 00:20:03,799
this system makes sense in a way in

439
00:20:11,909 --> 00:20:06,409
which doctrinaire theology does not make

440
00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:11,919
sense ok it is an esoteric experiential

441
00:20:18,220 --> 00:20:16,250
approach to reality so that for those of

442
00:20:20,980 --> 00:20:18,230
us who for instance worked with energy

443
00:20:22,779 --> 00:20:20,990
you do regression where constellation

444
00:20:25,509 --> 00:20:22,789
where whatever the notion of

445
00:20:29,019 --> 00:20:25,519
reincarnation is a very real one mm-hmm

446
00:20:32,350 --> 00:20:29,029
you experienced people who recover past

447
00:20:34,930 --> 00:20:32,360
life information so you know you don't

448
00:20:37,430 --> 00:20:34,940
need a theological judgment about it it

449
00:20:39,919 --> 00:20:37,440
becomes part of your experience

450
00:20:42,950 --> 00:20:39,929
and the belief system coming out of

451
00:20:45,980 --> 00:20:42,960
autism is rooted in real experience in

452
00:20:50,499 --> 00:20:45,990
this way it's liberating because it has

453
00:20:53,210 --> 00:20:50,509
this many lives aspect to it and it

454
00:20:55,369 --> 00:20:53,220
places the onus on your own moral

455
00:20:58,039 --> 00:20:55,379
development rather than obeying some of

456
00:21:01,249 --> 00:20:58,049
these rules mm-hmm okay so there's a

457
00:21:03,950 --> 00:21:01,259
dynamic element at the core of the

458
00:21:05,810 --> 00:21:03,960
belief system that perpetuates itself

459
00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:05,820
from year to year from century to

460
00:21:11,360 --> 00:21:08,490
century and even if it was lost it would

461
00:21:13,909 --> 00:21:11,370
be recovered or recoverable right

462
00:21:17,509 --> 00:21:13,919
because that's the way things are you

463
00:21:19,369 --> 00:21:17,519
know okay yes and you know these ideas

464
00:21:22,129 --> 00:21:19,379
you're talking about now very Gnostic

465
00:21:24,499 --> 00:21:22,139
and in regards to the deck as a Gnostic

466
00:21:26,539 --> 00:21:24,509
piece you say in categorizing the decks

467
00:21:28,669 --> 00:21:26,549
cosmology as Gnostic we need to take

468
00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:28,679
care not to confuse this fact with the

469
00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:30,450
historically documented Gnostic

470
00:21:34,430 --> 00:21:32,450
preoccupation with spiritual liberation

471
00:21:36,230 --> 00:21:34,440
nothing could be further from the

472
00:21:38,389 --> 00:21:36,240
worldview of the nobles to design this

473
00:21:40,639 --> 00:21:38,399
deck yeah and obviously that's an

474
00:21:43,039 --> 00:21:40,649
important separation I guess what other

475
00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:43,049
aspects of Gnosticism do actually make

476
00:21:49,279 --> 00:21:46,129
it into the deck everything is there

477
00:21:53,360 --> 00:21:49,289
except this this view that you should

478
00:21:56,060 --> 00:21:53,370
somehow clamber out of the cycle of meta

479
00:22:00,049 --> 00:21:56,070
psychosis and you know ascend to a

480
00:22:05,029 --> 00:22:00,059
higher plane that is totally absent this

481
00:22:08,450 --> 00:22:05,039
deck takes Gnosticism and converts it

482
00:22:12,619 --> 00:22:08,460
into a mechanism or let's let's put it

483
00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:12,629
this way this deck as a Gnostic artifact

484
00:22:19,299 --> 00:22:15,450
embodies the idea that if the machinery

485
00:22:23,570 --> 00:22:19,309
of the universe runs in such a way that

486
00:22:28,039 --> 00:22:23,580
subsequent lives arise out of the way

487
00:22:30,590 --> 00:22:28,049
you worship way you treat deities in

488
00:22:32,799 --> 00:22:30,600
this life then you can start affecting

489
00:22:37,249 --> 00:22:32,809
the trajectory of your subsequent

490
00:22:39,259 --> 00:22:37,259
reincarnation okay right so this ideas

491
00:22:41,899 --> 00:22:39,269
is taken directly out of Plato's

492
00:22:43,970 --> 00:22:41,909
Phaedrus you know we're in the deities

493
00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:43,980
you worship in this life you enter their

494
00:22:50,180 --> 00:22:47,250
training you enter their entourage upon

495
00:22:51,020 --> 00:22:50,190
death and you travel with them and then

496
00:22:54,050 --> 00:22:51,030
you kind of

497
00:22:56,990 --> 00:22:54,060
reenter okay now the key here is to

498
00:23:01,280 --> 00:22:57,000
re-enter into a social circle that is

499
00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:01,290
suitable for your objectives and for

500
00:23:07,610 --> 00:23:03,330
these elite families the objective is to

501
00:23:10,250 --> 00:23:07,620
re-enter an elite family mm-hmm okay so

502
00:23:12,380 --> 00:23:10,260
in this way the ritual suggested within

503
00:23:14,750 --> 00:23:12,390
the deck is a way of controlling the

504
00:23:17,060 --> 00:23:14,760
trajectory of one's own meta psychosis

505
00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:17,070
and this is where the notion of

506
00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:19,890
bloodlines takes on a new and deeper

507
00:23:24,860 --> 00:23:22,530
meaning absolutely that's so interesting

508
00:23:28,100 --> 00:23:24,870
because it's like we always see the

509
00:23:30,970 --> 00:23:28,110
elite as into playing the long game and

510
00:23:32,660 --> 00:23:30,980
these multi-generational mindsets and

511
00:23:34,130 --> 00:23:32,670
mainstream culture looks at that and

512
00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:34,140
says well that makes no sense

513
00:23:38,300 --> 00:23:37,050
you know people only live to be 78 years

514
00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:38,310
old they're not worried about what's

515
00:23:43,610 --> 00:23:40,770
going on for a 200 year game plan

516
00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:43,620
but this context makes that seem

517
00:23:47,980 --> 00:23:45,930
plausible and it justifies why that

518
00:23:50,570 --> 00:23:47,990
worldview would exist among the elite

519
00:23:52,910 --> 00:23:50,580
yeah and if you look at the ethnographic

520
00:23:54,890 --> 00:23:52,920
record around the world you find you

521
00:23:57,680 --> 00:23:54,900
know plenty of places where this is the

522
00:24:00,500 --> 00:23:57,690
way things are managed they take a lot

523
00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:00,510
occur with death ritual to try and

524
00:24:06,770 --> 00:24:02,850
ensure the subsequent rebirth of that

525
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:06,780
let's call it soul back into the family

526
00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:09,570
group or into the community or whatever

527
00:24:15,310 --> 00:24:11,850
and it kind of reaches a high point with

528
00:24:19,340 --> 00:24:15,320
the Buddhist Lamas who of course attempt

529
00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:19,350
multiple subsequent rebirth into equally

530
00:24:24,620 --> 00:24:22,530
spiritual positions and monasteries okay

531
00:24:26,870 --> 00:24:24,630
they have a mechanism for running that

532
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:26,880
process and for them validating that

533
00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:30,090
it's working so it's actually the

534
00:24:35,630 --> 00:24:32,490
Western esoteric system that's kind of

535
00:24:37,820 --> 00:24:35,640
lacking this but clearly at an elite

536
00:24:41,030 --> 00:24:37,830
level the awareness of it was still

537
00:24:43,250 --> 00:24:41,040
there it is amazing this is like Exhibit

538
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:43,260
A for the case that I've heard people

539
00:24:47,150 --> 00:24:45,210
trying to make for such a long time

540
00:24:49,970 --> 00:24:47,160
without having any real evidence or

541
00:24:53,180 --> 00:24:49,980
proof I mean this is no small thing and

542
00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:53,190
I guess we should address dead on why is

543
00:24:58,960 --> 00:24:55,610
it called the game of Saturn

544
00:25:01,720 --> 00:24:58,970
the figure of Saturn pervades this deck

545
00:25:04,780 --> 00:25:01,730
here at every level I've got a quote

546
00:25:06,730 --> 00:25:04,790
here it's by pro kleh Singh in this

547
00:25:09,430 --> 00:25:06,740
platonic theology says old Greek

548
00:25:12,430 --> 00:25:09,440
theology is the offspring of Orphic

549
00:25:15,550 --> 00:25:12,440
mystical doctrine and if you look at the

550
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:15,560
Orphic dr journey it starts out with

551
00:25:24,130 --> 00:25:19,730
Cronus the great serpent gives birth to

552
00:25:26,380 --> 00:25:24,140
a egg and from the egg it splits apart

553
00:25:29,860 --> 00:25:26,390
to create the land and the sky and and

554
00:25:33,190 --> 00:25:29,870
within it is the figure of Fanny's wound

555
00:25:37,690 --> 00:25:33,200
around by a large serpent so this is a

556
00:25:40,330 --> 00:25:37,700
very early component that situation

557
00:25:43,750 --> 00:25:40,340
Cronus at the most fundamental point of

558
00:25:47,220 --> 00:25:43,760
creation hmm okay and Cronus is Saturn

559
00:25:51,790 --> 00:25:47,230
right and for the Carthaginians he was

560
00:25:55,630 --> 00:25:51,800
Baal Hammon and in the Bible he appears

561
00:25:57,970 --> 00:25:55,640
as Moloch hmm okay these are all the

562
00:26:00,580 --> 00:25:57,980
same entity but different aspects of it

563
00:26:02,950 --> 00:26:00,590
so but this routes in the Orphic

564
00:26:06,370 --> 00:26:02,960
tradition Cronus becomes the central

565
00:26:08,890 --> 00:26:06,380
player he is the Demiurge he is the

566
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:08,900
creator entity so the serpentine or

567
00:26:15,820 --> 00:26:12,890
draconian form of the deity is the

568
00:26:18,190 --> 00:26:15,830
primal one mm-hmm okay

569
00:26:21,370 --> 00:26:18,200
that's why the game of Saturn and then

570
00:26:25,330 --> 00:26:21,380
multiple cards within the deck kind of

571
00:26:28,780 --> 00:26:25,340
replay this this theme of the serpent

572
00:26:32,380 --> 00:26:28,790
has Saturn as the serpent as Baal Hammon

573
00:26:36,820 --> 00:26:32,390
you know son who put this thing together

574
00:26:39,790 --> 00:26:36,830
had a very good grasp of mythology and

575
00:26:43,750 --> 00:26:39,800
the Theogony and cosmology of various

576
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:43,760
faiths that is so true and along this

577
00:26:48,190 --> 00:26:45,650
line to quote you again you say the

578
00:26:50,260 --> 00:26:48,200
decks theology embraces gnostic

579
00:26:52,420 --> 00:26:50,270
cosmology in its totality but

580
00:26:54,850 --> 00:26:52,430
nevertheless discards liberation in

581
00:26:58,090 --> 00:26:54,860
favor of the positive embrace of the

582
00:27:00,280 --> 00:26:58,100
demiurges worldly rulership is this to

583
00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:00,290
say that there's a mindset within the

584
00:27:03,580 --> 00:27:01,730
15th century elite that says hey

585
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:03,590
Demiurge i know you're the boss we

586
00:27:06,820 --> 00:27:05,450
figured this out so how can I get on

587
00:27:08,290 --> 00:27:06,830
your good side how can we work out a

588
00:27:10,330 --> 00:27:08,300
deal

589
00:27:12,660 --> 00:27:10,340
I couldn't put it better myself right

590
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:12,670
[Laughter]

591
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:14,810
that's it you got it

592
00:27:19,660 --> 00:27:17,810
Wow it seems so in line with

593
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:19,670
conspiratorial suggestions today that

594
00:27:23,350 --> 00:27:21,170
the elite have made a deal with the

595
00:27:25,570 --> 00:27:23,360
Demiurge to basically be the management

596
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:25,580
class on the earthly plane to opt out of

597
00:27:29,830 --> 00:27:27,530
the rebirth cycle and stay in these

598
00:27:31,870 --> 00:27:29,840
positions maintain these bloodlines and

599
00:27:34,090 --> 00:27:31,880
in exchange have vast amounts of

600
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:34,100
material wealth and power I guess that's

601
00:27:38,890 --> 00:27:35,810
a worldview that's pretty aligned with

602
00:27:42,250 --> 00:27:38,900
this 15th century elite heirloom and its

603
00:27:45,060 --> 00:27:42,260
Chain of Custody I guess yeah it's the

604
00:27:47,590 --> 00:27:45,070
horrible realization isn't it that those

605
00:27:51,250 --> 00:27:47,600
conspiracy theories have their roots in

606
00:27:53,620 --> 00:27:51,260
a real tradition mm-hmm you know that's

607
00:27:55,830 --> 00:27:53,630
the bottom line with this reading of the

608
00:28:01,030 --> 00:27:55,840
deck this interpretation of the deck

609
00:28:02,710 --> 00:28:01,040
mm-hmm it's horribly real right and and

610
00:28:05,020 --> 00:28:02,720
that's kind of like what I just think is

611
00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:05,030
so provocative about it and you write

612
00:28:09,700 --> 00:28:06,770
about how they had this worldview that

613
00:28:12,580 --> 00:28:09,710
each person or soul coordinates with a

614
00:28:14,230 --> 00:28:12,590
star in the sky and the deck contains

615
00:28:16,570 --> 00:28:14,240
references to a star

616
00:28:18,460 --> 00:28:16,580
caput angle I guess is how it's right

617
00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:18,470
something I've held oh yeah that's a

618
00:28:21,360 --> 00:28:20,090
star I've never really here talked about

619
00:28:23,470 --> 00:28:21,370
what do we know about this stars

620
00:28:26,380 --> 00:28:23,480
attributed characteristics what are the

621
00:28:32,070 --> 00:28:26,390
references to this star mean to you it's

622
00:28:35,970 --> 00:28:32,080
the most malefic star in the sky

623
00:28:39,870 --> 00:28:35,980
Barn on so if you want to do the

624
00:28:42,180 --> 00:28:39,880
heaviest kind of sorcery imaginable this

625
00:28:45,779 --> 00:28:42,190
is definitely one of the ingredients the

626
00:28:47,730 --> 00:28:45,789
energies of this particular star that's

627
00:28:52,289 --> 00:28:47,740
why it's there that's why it's kind of

628
00:28:57,450 --> 00:28:52,299
highlighted in the deck hmm it's part of

629
00:29:00,269 --> 00:28:57,460
a brew a dark room well said and and

630
00:29:03,899 --> 00:29:00,279
because it's a fixed star whatever

631
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:03,909
malefic intention you have its energy

632
00:29:11,519 --> 00:29:07,450
will tend to fix it in place and prolong

633
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:11,529
its activity hmm and that's why the fig

634
00:29:16,379 --> 00:29:13,570
the fixed stars are important for that

635
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:16,389
and a malefic fixed star kinda has the

636
00:29:22,049 --> 00:29:19,330
double action of adding to the dark brew

637
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:22,059
whilst maintaining its pervasiveness its

638
00:29:29,070 --> 00:29:24,730
its influence its effect on people

639
00:29:32,610 --> 00:29:29,080
mm-hmm but I want to perhaps it's just

640
00:29:33,450 --> 00:29:32,620
worthwhile contextualizing what we said

641
00:29:37,710 --> 00:29:33,460
up to now

642
00:29:41,039 --> 00:29:37,720
Greg those recent ethnographic work has

643
00:29:44,690 --> 00:29:41,049
identified and opened out a phenomena

644
00:29:47,009 --> 00:29:44,700
called dark shamanism and for years now

645
00:29:49,139 --> 00:29:47,019
people especially in the West have been

646
00:29:51,690 --> 00:29:49,149
looking towards shamanism as this

647
00:29:54,149 --> 00:29:51,700
liberating force you know is this

648
00:29:56,820 --> 00:29:54,159
ecologically conscious and on all these

649
00:29:59,240 --> 00:29:56,830
good things and we've kind of neglected

650
00:30:02,090 --> 00:29:59,250
the fact that there is a complementary

651
00:30:05,190 --> 00:30:02,100
shamanism which is correctly

652
00:30:06,810 --> 00:30:05,200
characterized as dark shamanism and but

653
00:30:08,490 --> 00:30:06,820
those who want to follow this up there's

654
00:30:11,490 --> 00:30:08,500
an excellent collection of academic

655
00:30:14,180 --> 00:30:11,500
essays called in darkness and secrecy by

656
00:30:16,649 --> 00:30:14,190
Whitehead and right and it very much

657
00:30:19,799 --> 00:30:16,659
concentrates on dark shamanism within

658
00:30:20,430 --> 00:30:19,809
the amazon area but the core of this is

659
00:30:24,259 --> 00:30:20,440
assault

660
00:30:27,149 --> 00:30:24,269
sorcery and a kind of cosmological

661
00:30:31,620 --> 00:30:27,159
construct we can perhaps best described

662
00:30:33,870 --> 00:30:31,630
as a cosmology of predation and the core

663
00:30:37,220 --> 00:30:33,880
of this is that the shaman opens

664
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:37,230
themselves to possession by the most

665
00:30:41,580 --> 00:30:39,250
powerful

666
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:41,590
three entity

667
00:30:47,820 --> 00:30:45,250
that they can summon and in that form

668
00:30:50,519 --> 00:30:47,830
they either can go out of body to wreak

669
00:30:54,029 --> 00:30:50,529
havoc or they can command lesser

670
00:30:56,810 --> 00:30:54,039
entities to do their bidding okay so

671
00:31:00,180 --> 00:30:56,820
this is a core ethnographic construct

672
00:31:02,970 --> 00:31:00,190
now the strange thing is that when we

673
00:31:06,990 --> 00:31:02,980
look at the card specifically one card

674
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:07,000
called ko it shows a monk with dragon

675
00:31:13,620 --> 00:31:10,570
wings okay and within the sequence of

676
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:13,630
ritual cards within the deck you see a

677
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:16,690
series that are intended to induce

678
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:21,010
possession by a draconian entity and

679
00:31:27,899 --> 00:31:24,370
that card it AO actually depicts the

680
00:31:30,180 --> 00:31:27,909
monk totally possessed by the entity so

681
00:31:32,909 --> 00:31:30,190
when there's different grades of

682
00:31:35,610 --> 00:31:32,919
possession of course you know you can

683
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:35,620
have a whole variety but complete

684
00:31:40,620 --> 00:31:37,330
possession means the total displacement

685
00:31:44,310 --> 00:31:40,630
of the persona the person will have no

686
00:31:47,519 --> 00:31:44,320
memory whatsoever post of what they've

687
00:31:51,389 --> 00:31:47,529
done of what happened the possession is

688
00:31:54,529 --> 00:31:51,399
complete hmm okay so in the context of

689
00:31:57,240 --> 00:31:54,539
dark shamanism we're seeing a

690
00:31:59,940 --> 00:31:57,250
ethnographically attested process

691
00:32:02,580 --> 00:31:59,950
whereby dark shaman opened themselves to

692
00:32:05,940 --> 00:32:02,590
possession by these predatory entities

693
00:32:08,730 --> 00:32:05,950
and then use that power so to speak to

694
00:32:11,990 --> 00:32:08,740
wreak havoc of water whatever kind they

695
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:12,000
intend to do hmm so that construct

696
00:32:19,139 --> 00:32:15,130
perfectly fits the imagery that we're

697
00:32:22,919 --> 00:32:19,149
dealing with and the kind of uses that

698
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:22,929
this Renaissance elite would have yes

699
00:32:27,299 --> 00:32:25,690
it's quite amazing and you know there's

700
00:32:30,269 --> 00:32:27,309
a lot of people even today we hear

701
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:30,279
little nuggets of wisdom dropped by

702
00:32:35,580 --> 00:32:33,490
those who have kind of touched the

703
00:32:37,529 --> 00:32:35,590
fringes of elite circles or worked in

704
00:32:39,659 --> 00:32:37,539
certain industries like banking or

705
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:39,669
politics at high levels and they come

706
00:32:43,710 --> 00:32:42,010
out and say you know these people are

707
00:32:45,389 --> 00:32:43,720
possessed and you're like you know you

708
00:32:47,549 --> 00:32:45,399
don't think of that literally but that's

709
00:32:50,370 --> 00:32:47,559
a term that is thrown around quite often

710
00:32:52,649 --> 00:32:50,380
when describing the way these people act

711
00:32:55,470 --> 00:32:52,659
and the way it is to the way it feels to

712
00:32:57,600 --> 00:32:55,480
be around them exactly and this is it

713
00:33:01,310 --> 00:32:57,610
now if we can only start connecting our

714
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:01,320
you know ethnographic and historical

715
00:33:05,850 --> 00:33:04,090
information to the current situation we

716
00:33:08,279 --> 00:33:05,860
can begin to illuminate some of these

717
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:08,289
things for the first time they start to

718
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:10,450
make sense when you contextualize them

719
00:33:14,970 --> 00:33:12,010
but you've got to get the right

720
00:33:18,389 --> 00:33:14,980
background in place in order to do that

721
00:33:20,659 --> 00:33:18,399
absolutely and you know another element

722
00:33:24,090 --> 00:33:20,669
of that background is you say that the

723
00:33:26,250 --> 00:33:24,100
deste worldview entirely explains the

724
00:33:29,340 --> 00:33:26,260
magically oriented motivations of the

725
00:33:31,260 --> 00:33:29,350
decks design and use and DSA is a name

726
00:33:33,750 --> 00:33:31,270
that comes up a lot in your book I don't

727
00:33:36,980 --> 00:33:33,760
hear it all that often outside of your

728
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:36,990
book but tell us about that family and

729
00:33:45,870 --> 00:33:43,330
their connection to this deck yeah they

730
00:33:48,990 --> 00:33:45,880
kind of emerge out of obscurity in the

731
00:33:51,060 --> 00:33:49,000
you know 10th century or so and thus

732
00:33:53,460 --> 00:33:51,070
various branches of this family and

733
00:33:56,310 --> 00:33:53,470
you're right they're obscure I certainly

734
00:33:57,139 --> 00:33:56,320
didn't have any particular awareness of

735
00:34:00,139 --> 00:33:57,149
them when I

736
00:34:02,029 --> 00:34:00,149
out of this project but they in Italy

737
00:34:04,940 --> 00:34:02,039
they came to be the rulers are of the

738
00:34:07,609 --> 00:34:04,950
city-state of Ferrara and we're closely

739
00:34:09,919 --> 00:34:07,619
allied with Venice and it's within that

740
00:34:12,799 --> 00:34:09,929
context that the deck was designed had

741
00:34:15,700 --> 00:34:12,809
created now it turns out that the

742
00:34:18,399 --> 00:34:15,710
Italian branch is a cadet branch of the

743
00:34:24,019 --> 00:34:18,409
larger family in the austro-hungarian

744
00:34:26,649 --> 00:34:24,029
area the the Guelph esday and the other

745
00:34:32,899 --> 00:34:26,659
cadet branch of this family are the

746
00:34:35,899 --> 00:34:32,909
Hanoverian monarchs so let me put this

747
00:34:39,769 --> 00:34:35,909
in a historical context I think

748
00:34:42,789 --> 00:34:39,779
something like 17th century married este

749
00:34:45,109 --> 00:34:42,799
of Modena married the Duke of York and

750
00:34:48,950 --> 00:34:45,119
when he ascended to the throne of

751
00:34:52,339 --> 00:34:48,960
England she became queen of England okay

752
00:34:55,129 --> 00:34:52,349
and it was a short-lived monarchy but

753
00:34:57,940 --> 00:34:55,139
then there was an interregnum and then

754
00:35:01,400 --> 00:34:57,950
the Hanoverian monarchs took over and

755
00:35:02,180 --> 00:35:01,410
this is George the 1st 2nd 3rd all of

756
00:35:04,940 --> 00:35:02,190
these people

757
00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:04,950
now we're talking about an arc of

758
00:35:12,970 --> 00:35:09,690
history which leads from supremacy in

759
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:12,980
the Renaissance for about 300 years and

760
00:35:20,180 --> 00:35:17,970
then kind of switches saddles okay just

761
00:35:24,319 --> 00:35:20,190
in time to catch the rise of the British

762
00:35:27,559 --> 00:35:24,329
Empire hmm and at the end of that the

763
00:35:31,309 --> 00:35:27,569
tail end of that catches the start of

764
00:35:34,130 --> 00:35:31,319
the USA right and so the implication

765
00:35:35,839 --> 00:35:34,140
there is that there's maybe a network

766
00:35:37,700 --> 00:35:35,849
working within groups it doesn't have

767
00:35:41,359 --> 00:35:37,710
the same allegiances as we might think

768
00:35:43,970 --> 00:35:41,369
and you know when one Empire declines in

769
00:35:45,349 --> 00:35:43,980
another rises some of these figures or

770
00:35:48,319 --> 00:35:45,359
what we might call the Brotherhood of

771
00:35:50,930 --> 00:35:48,329
Saturn they seem to emerge in these new

772
00:35:54,740 --> 00:35:50,940
empires as well as the collapsing ones

773
00:35:56,359 --> 00:35:54,750
yeah so you have to put all the points

774
00:35:59,120 --> 00:35:56,369
of view together you have to pile them

775
00:36:01,730 --> 00:35:59,130
all together to make sense of these kind

776
00:36:05,059 --> 00:36:01,740
of patterns because they historically

777
00:36:08,799 --> 00:36:05,069
there so long lived and this takes us

778
00:36:11,510 --> 00:36:08,809
right back to Byzantium again where this

779
00:36:14,970 --> 00:36:11,520
pagan philosopher who

780
00:36:18,630 --> 00:36:14,980
introduce these ideas to Italy had a

781
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:18,640
pagan school which taught theurgy which

782
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:22,450
taught ritual magic and was completely a

783
00:36:30,650 --> 00:36:26,770
pagan entity okay so what I'm saying is

784
00:36:34,860 --> 00:36:30,660
there's a tradition of a ritual praxis

785
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:34,870
that was invented God knows when was

786
00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:37,930
alive and well in 15th century Byzantium

787
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:40,930
and is now captured within these cards

788
00:36:47,010 --> 00:36:45,010
and carried forward and again how come

789
00:36:51,420 --> 00:36:47,020
we have these cards where have they been

790
00:36:54,270 --> 00:36:51,430
for 300 years there's a mystery yes but

791
00:36:55,980 --> 00:36:54,280
they surface now we can't open them out

792
00:37:00,180 --> 00:36:55,990
now and this is the story they're

793
00:37:03,330 --> 00:37:00,190
telling us it is amazing and that is one

794
00:37:05,730 --> 00:37:03,340
of my questions for you is what other

795
00:37:07,650 --> 00:37:05,740
insights can we get from kind of tracing

796
00:37:09,150 --> 00:37:07,660
that Chain of Custody I mean I know we

797
00:37:12,330 --> 00:37:09,160
know the early steps and we obviously

798
00:37:15,030 --> 00:37:12,340
know where it ended up in Milan but are

799
00:37:17,100 --> 00:37:15,040
there other nodes or bullet points on

800
00:37:20,370 --> 00:37:17,110
that chain of custody that you find kind

801
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:20,380
of curious or interesting I'm really at

802
00:37:25,670 --> 00:37:23,170
a loss to fill in the gaps it's

803
00:37:28,620 --> 00:37:25,680
completely conjectural mm-hmm and

804
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:28,630
there's like 300 years where the deck is

805
00:37:33,990 --> 00:37:31,050
just invisible I mean it just disappears

806
00:37:36,180 --> 00:37:34,000
based on certain marks I mean the deck

807
00:37:39,690 --> 00:37:36,190
was engraved right and then they printed

808
00:37:43,620 --> 00:37:39,700
the sheets and then one set of sheets

809
00:37:45,810 --> 00:37:43,630
were painted and delivered to person

810
00:37:49,350 --> 00:37:45,820
called marrinson udo in Venetian

811
00:37:51,900 --> 00:37:49,360
patrician and the curious thing about

812
00:37:55,050 --> 00:37:51,910
the marks that were placed on the deck

813
00:37:57,360 --> 00:37:55,060
is that it identifies him it identifies

814
00:37:59,070 --> 00:37:57,370
the fact that he was gay and it

815
00:38:02,840 --> 00:37:59,080
identifies the fact that almost

816
00:38:06,780 --> 00:38:02,850
certainly the fairies were able to

817
00:38:11,070 --> 00:38:06,790
manipulate him suborn him into betraying

818
00:38:14,580 --> 00:38:11,080
Venice mm-hmm so that the deck is like a

819
00:38:17,580 --> 00:38:14,590
payoff in a very important operation

820
00:38:20,100 --> 00:38:17,590
that Ferrara ran against Venice and it's

821
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:20,110
also a reminder to him that at any time

822
00:38:25,410 --> 00:38:23,290
if he opens his mouth or stops

823
00:38:28,410 --> 00:38:25,420
cooperating they've got enough

824
00:38:30,630 --> 00:38:28,420
to see him burn at the stake hmm so

825
00:38:33,660 --> 00:38:30,640
there's that level of historical

826
00:38:35,670 --> 00:38:33,670
interpretation now again marrinson udo

827
00:38:38,730 --> 00:38:35,680
who was he who wear it well his mother's

828
00:38:41,190 --> 00:38:38,740
family the venire family and the venue's

829
00:38:44,730 --> 00:38:41,200
claimed to be descendants of the emperor

830
00:38:46,799 --> 00:38:44,740
valerian okay and then you check out the

831
00:38:50,089 --> 00:38:46,809
emperor valerian and it turns out he is

832
00:38:54,359 --> 00:38:50,099
one of the child's sacrificing emperors

833
00:38:57,480 --> 00:38:54,369
of late rome nice he was notorious for

834
00:38:59,339 --> 00:38:57,490
it yeah and that brings you back again

835
00:39:01,859 --> 00:38:59,349
to the card in the deck showing the

836
00:39:05,910 --> 00:39:01,869
child over the fire what the heck is

837
00:39:08,220 --> 00:39:05,920
going on here hmm there's a disturbing

838
00:39:10,260 --> 00:39:08,230
aspect of this in in respect of the fact

839
00:39:13,500 --> 00:39:10,270
that all of the court cards the named

840
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:13,510
court cards nine of them all have one

841
00:39:20,220 --> 00:39:16,690
thing in common they depict figures

842
00:39:23,069 --> 00:39:20,230
related to the conception of Alexander

843
00:39:25,289 --> 00:39:23,079
the Great not to anything Alexander the

844
00:39:27,089 --> 00:39:25,299
Great actually did mm-hmm you know which

845
00:39:30,569 --> 00:39:27,099
is what most people are interested in

846
00:39:32,940 --> 00:39:30,579
but to his conception and when you look

847
00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:32,950
into the Alexander romance literature

848
00:39:38,700 --> 00:39:35,530
there's one characteristic about his

849
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:38,710
conception that stands out his mother's

850
00:39:45,289 --> 00:39:42,490
intercourse with Baal Hammon hmm so that

851
00:39:47,940 --> 00:39:45,299
Alexander is like a demigod you know and

852
00:39:50,789 --> 00:39:47,950
again this is one of the connections

853
00:39:52,710 --> 00:39:50,799
that deeply woven into the texture of

854
00:39:55,250 --> 00:39:52,720
the decks imagery and symbolism

855
00:39:59,370 --> 00:39:55,260
you know connects Saturn Kronus the

856
00:40:02,819 --> 00:39:59,380
draconian force and the Carthaginian God

857
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:02,829
Baal ha manos known for one thing a one

858
00:40:07,740 --> 00:40:05,290
thing alone this is the sacrifice of

859
00:40:10,109 --> 00:40:07,750
small children milk it was called and

860
00:40:14,370 --> 00:40:10,119
it's from that word moat that we get the

861
00:40:17,039 --> 00:40:14,380
name Maliki in the Bible Wow so we have

862
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:17,049
these blind spots in the chain of

863
00:40:22,109 --> 00:40:19,450
custody of the deck can you maybe tell

864
00:40:24,260 --> 00:40:22,119
us how it got out of private hands and

865
00:40:27,299 --> 00:40:24,270
into the public sphere into a museum

866
00:40:29,730 --> 00:40:27,309
well let me just kind of touch on

867
00:40:32,910 --> 00:40:29,740
whatever I do know which is very little

868
00:40:35,460 --> 00:40:32,920
so who won't take long marrinson udo

869
00:40:38,670 --> 00:40:35,470
died in venice in the early 16th century

870
00:40:39,599 --> 00:40:38,680
and all his effects were auctioned at

871
00:40:43,380 --> 00:40:39,609
that

872
00:40:46,650 --> 00:40:43,390
now there's a jump of like two or three

873
00:40:50,069 --> 00:40:46,660
hundred years to a Milanese family the

874
00:40:51,959 --> 00:40:50,079
Marquise a sir Bologna as far as I can

875
00:40:54,390 --> 00:40:51,969
tell there's only one connection between

876
00:40:57,059 --> 00:40:54,400
the sir Bellini and the Venice of the

877
00:40:59,400 --> 00:40:57,069
16th century it was one of the early

878
00:41:02,009 --> 00:40:59,410
members of sir Bellini family two

879
00:41:04,109 --> 00:41:02,019
brothers in fact one became Pope the

880
00:41:08,370 --> 00:41:04,119
other became a notorious brigand and

881
00:41:11,729 --> 00:41:08,380
then got promoted as a hitman for

882
00:41:14,910 --> 00:41:11,739
Francesco Sforza so you know he was

883
00:41:17,819 --> 00:41:14,920
plying his trade and obviously got into

884
00:41:19,739 --> 00:41:17,829
trouble and had to escape and then he's

885
00:41:22,289 --> 00:41:19,749
documented in various parts of Europe

886
00:41:24,690 --> 00:41:22,299
you know no doubt further enhancing his

887
00:41:29,219 --> 00:41:24,700
skillset and at some point in the course

888
00:41:34,049 --> 00:41:29,229
of that he got special recognition from

889
00:41:36,479 --> 00:41:34,059
Venice for services rendered I I don't

890
00:41:40,650 --> 00:41:36,489
want to speculate on what they may have

891
00:41:42,359 --> 00:41:40,660
been but it kind of enabled him Wow so

892
00:41:44,609 --> 00:41:42,369
that's the one connect and he would have

893
00:41:47,130 --> 00:41:44,619
been in Venice about the time that the

894
00:41:50,579 --> 00:41:47,140
deck came on the market was auctioned

895
00:41:53,219 --> 00:41:50,589
and as I say the next thing is the deck

896
00:41:57,150 --> 00:41:53,229
turns up in the hands of the Marquis

897
00:42:00,170 --> 00:41:57,160
asura Bologna dated about 1830 there's

898
00:42:02,609 --> 00:42:00,180
an antiquarian count chicken ARA who

899
00:42:04,289 --> 00:42:02,619
examined the cards at that point and

900
00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:04,299
saying they were in the hands of the

901
00:42:10,559 --> 00:42:08,170
marquis a sur balloon and rolling

902
00:42:14,219 --> 00:42:10,569
forward from that point a set of these

903
00:42:16,199 --> 00:42:14,229
cards were sent photographic images of

904
00:42:21,299 --> 00:42:16,209
the cars were set to the British Museum

905
00:42:23,819 --> 00:42:21,309
and in 1909 I think and put on display

906
00:42:27,209 --> 00:42:23,829
there where Pamela Coleman Smith the

907
00:42:29,849 --> 00:42:27,219
designer of the popular wait Smith tarot

908
00:42:32,249 --> 00:42:29,859
deck would have seen them and its

909
00:42:34,769 --> 00:42:32,259
aspects of their imagery which you now

910
00:42:38,809 --> 00:42:34,779
find in pretty well every tarot deck in

911
00:42:42,569 --> 00:42:38,819
world today so kind of unconsciously

912
00:42:46,109 --> 00:42:42,579
propagated the imagery solar busker into

913
00:42:48,359 --> 00:42:46,119
pretty well everybody's tarot deck and

914
00:42:50,699 --> 00:42:48,369
that seems to be how magic works right I

915
00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:50,709
mean these influences the power in them

916
00:42:55,230 --> 00:42:53,170
they seem to kind of

917
00:42:56,880 --> 00:42:55,240
out kind of spiderweb out even if it's

918
00:42:59,819 --> 00:42:56,890
not obvious on the surface that's kind

919
00:43:01,799 --> 00:42:59,829
of an interesting aspect I think again

920
00:43:05,309 --> 00:43:01,809
you know from an esoteric point of view

921
00:43:08,609 --> 00:43:05,319
we have to recognize that when we talk

922
00:43:10,849 --> 00:43:08,619
about these energies or powers that are

923
00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:10,859
the subject of esoteric work

924
00:43:17,130 --> 00:43:13,930
don't many people talk about agency in

925
00:43:18,750 --> 00:43:17,140
that context you know most of us think

926
00:43:21,210 --> 00:43:18,760
of energy is like the light switch you

927
00:43:24,660 --> 00:43:21,220
switch it on you switch it off you know

928
00:43:26,549 --> 00:43:24,670
it has rules it Basel rules but in an

929
00:43:28,650 --> 00:43:26,559
asterick sense these energies have

930
00:43:31,620 --> 00:43:28,660
agency they're pretty well like you or

931
00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:31,630
me in many respects and that is the way

932
00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:34,930
in which the energies behind the deck

933
00:43:40,460 --> 00:43:36,970
would have been interpreted in the 15th

934
00:43:44,099 --> 00:43:40,470
century hmm okay it's it's not some

935
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:44,109
background buzz of energy right it's an

936
00:43:50,549 --> 00:43:48,970
agency work okay so and that makes all

937
00:43:53,370 --> 00:43:50,559
the difference if you start

938
00:43:56,549 --> 00:43:53,380
conceptualizing those energies working

939
00:44:00,089 --> 00:43:56,559
through history in terms of agency then

940
00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:00,099
you have to rethink a lot of stuff no

941
00:44:08,059 --> 00:44:05,170
doubt man so just to follow up with the

942
00:44:10,950 --> 00:44:08,069
the lineage of the cards what's the end

943
00:44:16,710 --> 00:44:10,960
bookend for the path these cards have

944
00:44:20,940 --> 00:44:16,720
taken okay so around 1988 or so a German

945
00:44:22,700 --> 00:44:20,950
or Austrian terrorist got permission to

946
00:44:29,190 --> 00:44:22,710
photograph the cars and he made a

947
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:29,200
reproduction deck and then what 2009 or

948
00:44:34,530 --> 00:44:32,770
so the Italian state stepped in Italian

949
00:44:38,190 --> 00:44:34,540
Ministry of Culture stepped in and

950
00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:38,200
bought the entire deck I believe from

951
00:44:42,299 --> 00:44:39,970
the descendants of the sir Bellini

952
00:44:44,970 --> 00:44:42,309
family although that is never stated I

953
00:44:47,849 --> 00:44:44,980
believe that that's and they bought it

954
00:44:51,630 --> 00:44:47,859
for eight hundred thousand euro and it's

955
00:44:53,010 --> 00:44:51,640
now in the brewer gallery in Milan it's

956
00:44:56,370 --> 00:44:53,020
held there hmm

957
00:44:58,859 --> 00:44:56,380
okay and our imagery in the book and as

958
00:45:01,620 --> 00:44:58,869
you know the Scarlet imprint are about

959
00:45:04,230 --> 00:45:01,630
to start shipping a reproduction perfect

960
00:45:06,059 --> 00:45:04,240
reproduction of this deck the imagery

961
00:45:06,870 --> 00:45:06,069
has been provided by the Brera gallery

962
00:45:17,620 --> 00:45:06,880
to

963
00:45:19,959 --> 00:45:17,630
this evidence of a continuity of elite

964
00:45:21,749 --> 00:45:19,969
power and a consistency of occult

965
00:45:23,769 --> 00:45:21,759
beliefs among their ranks is

966
00:45:26,319 --> 00:45:23,779
mind-blowing it's really like what a

967
00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:26,329
conspiracy enthusiast has been looking

968
00:45:32,259 --> 00:45:29,930
for for a long long time yeah I think

969
00:45:35,259 --> 00:45:32,269
you got to get into the mindset not just

970
00:45:38,049 --> 00:45:35,269
of the elite but of what I call hardcore

971
00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:38,059
esotericism to get this stuff you know

972
00:45:43,390 --> 00:45:41,450
yes and on that subject

973
00:45:45,700 --> 00:45:43,400
you know you mentioned platonism a

974
00:45:47,499 --> 00:45:45,710
little bit everybody knows Plato by name

975
00:45:50,589 --> 00:45:47,509
but it's really interesting because you

976
00:45:54,009 --> 00:45:50,599
talk about his philosophy really does

977
00:45:56,499 --> 00:45:54,019
have kind of a linkage to empowering the

978
00:45:58,509 --> 00:45:56,509
elite or justifying the elites power and

979
00:46:00,370 --> 00:45:58,519
that thread isn't usually highlighted

980
00:46:02,559 --> 00:46:00,380
when you're discussing Plato and his

981
00:46:05,170 --> 00:46:02,569
philosophy but that might be why he is

982
00:46:06,700 --> 00:46:05,180
such a household name and why he's gonna

983
00:46:07,779 --> 00:46:06,710
been held in such high regard it's

984
00:46:11,380 --> 00:46:07,789
because as far as the elite are

985
00:46:13,450 --> 00:46:11,390
concerned he provides a basis for why

986
00:46:15,999 --> 00:46:13,460
they are at the top and we're at the

987
00:46:19,779 --> 00:46:16,009
bottom yeah I think the whole way in

988
00:46:22,599 --> 00:46:19,789
which Plato's workers being handled or

989
00:46:24,700 --> 00:46:22,609
treated and certainly by educational

990
00:46:27,039 --> 00:46:24,710
institutions as varied enormous Lee

991
00:46:30,549 --> 00:46:27,049
there's like you know before the church

992
00:46:34,029 --> 00:46:30,559
and after the church you know so in the

993
00:46:36,999 --> 00:46:34,039
ancient world plato's teachings were

994
00:46:38,709 --> 00:46:37,009
from a very early date you know he has

995
00:46:42,039 --> 00:46:38,719
all these dialogues they must be worth

996
00:46:44,979 --> 00:46:42,049
30 40 dialogues people were coming up

997
00:46:48,339 --> 00:46:44,989
for ideal sequences in which to study

998
00:46:51,039 --> 00:46:48,349
these dialogues okay but they always

999
00:46:53,219 --> 00:46:51,049
started with the same dialogue alka by

1000
00:46:56,440 --> 00:46:53,229
Hadees now why is that

1001
00:47:01,539 --> 00:46:56,450
alka by Hadees deals with one thing only

1002
00:47:05,079 --> 00:47:01,549
and that is Alchemy's is a very rich kid

1003
00:47:08,079 --> 00:47:05,089
who his parents have died he doesn't

1004
00:47:10,749 --> 00:47:08,089
actually have a clear sense of what's

1005
00:47:12,999 --> 00:47:10,759
what but he wants to make his mark on

1006
00:47:15,069 --> 00:47:13,009
society and because of his wealth he's

1007
00:47:18,309 --> 00:47:15,079
going to enter the political process in

1008
00:47:20,590 --> 00:47:18,319
Athens okay so that that's the scenario

1009
00:47:25,570 --> 00:47:20,600
that Alka by ADIZ the dialogue set

1010
00:47:27,730 --> 00:47:25,580
for us in his discourse or his dialogue

1011
00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:27,740
with Socrates Socrates is attempting to

1012
00:47:32,980 --> 00:47:29,330
say to him you're looking for

1013
00:47:37,630 --> 00:47:32,990
self-aggrandizement but what about

1014
00:47:40,870 --> 00:47:37,640
service okay so the whole theme of the

1015
00:47:43,180 --> 00:47:40,880
Platonic dialogues if they touch on many

1016
00:47:45,220 --> 00:47:43,190
things you know ethics theory of

1017
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:45,230
knowledge you name it but ultimately

1018
00:47:51,970 --> 00:47:48,890
it's how can an elite governor society

1019
00:47:55,630 --> 00:47:51,980
justly this is the core issue of Platon

1020
00:47:59,350 --> 00:47:55,640
ISM and in order to be able to justly

1021
00:48:02,110 --> 00:47:59,360
run a society you have to be entitled to

1022
00:48:04,570 --> 00:48:02,120
do so you have to be totally selfless

1023
00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:04,580
blah blah blah okay and part of that

1024
00:48:09,700 --> 00:48:07,130
play those recommendations is that the

1025
00:48:10,180 --> 00:48:09,710
elite should sacrifice all wealth and

1026
00:48:12,460 --> 00:48:10,190
power

1027
00:48:15,610 --> 00:48:12,470
they shouldn't hold any property for

1028
00:48:17,890 --> 00:48:15,620
instance no money they shouldn't inherit

1029
00:48:20,560 --> 00:48:17,900
anything they have to be solely

1030
00:48:23,110 --> 00:48:20,570
dedicated to justice and part of

1031
00:48:26,859 --> 00:48:23,120
becoming just is to become enlightened

1032
00:48:29,359 --> 00:48:26,869
in your person

1033
00:48:33,260 --> 00:48:29,369
selfless and enlightened this is the

1034
00:48:35,950 --> 00:48:33,270
Platonic ideal for the elite now you can

1035
00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:35,960
see how far away we are from absolutely

1036
00:48:42,250 --> 00:48:39,210
getting anywhere near that but that was

1037
00:48:46,670 --> 00:48:42,260
the inspiration there and in order to

1038
00:48:48,020 --> 00:48:46,680
project that kind of justice forward

1039
00:48:51,260 --> 00:48:48,030
through the generations

1040
00:48:55,370 --> 00:48:51,270
Plato elaborated the system of medicine

1041
00:48:57,440 --> 00:48:55,380
kosis and spiritual internal growth so

1042
00:49:00,890 --> 00:48:57,450
that you know within the Platonic

1043
00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:00,900
tradition he had this phrase li ye pep

1044
00:49:05,950 --> 00:49:03,090
artis monoi thee the illumined ones

1045
00:49:08,210 --> 00:49:05,960
people would actually seek to become

1046
00:49:12,410 --> 00:49:08,220
illumined in their inner nature and

1047
00:49:15,740 --> 00:49:12,420
therefore capable of dealing justly hmm

1048
00:49:17,840 --> 00:49:15,750
out of their very essence and because

1049
00:49:20,810 --> 00:49:17,850
they don't have these family ties these

1050
00:49:24,080 --> 00:49:20,820
wealth this property haha they just do

1051
00:49:27,470 --> 00:49:24,090
what's right okay this was the Platonic

1052
00:49:30,380 --> 00:49:27,480
ideal now the etheric aspects of that is

1053
00:49:32,450 --> 00:49:30,390
that such an illumined elite would also

1054
00:49:35,030 --> 00:49:32,460
have the highest connection with the

1055
00:49:38,090 --> 00:49:35,040
deities and so on so they would drive

1056
00:49:40,910 --> 00:49:38,100
the process of subsequent as a psychosis

1057
00:49:42,880 --> 00:49:40,920
of rebirth if you like mm-hmm okay

1058
00:49:45,859 --> 00:49:42,890
so it become a self-perpetuating

1059
00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:45,869
mechanism now somewhere along the line

1060
00:49:53,090 --> 00:49:50,490
Gregg this idea of dropping wealth

1061
00:49:56,750 --> 00:49:53,100
property and family ties and not having

1062
00:50:02,090 --> 00:49:56,760
them to influence your justice got lost

1063
00:50:05,420 --> 00:50:02,100
I'd say so and I think it got lost very

1064
00:50:08,960 --> 00:50:05,430
early in human history so we're living

1065
00:50:11,240 --> 00:50:08,970
essentially with a dark platon ism it

1066
00:50:13,310 --> 00:50:11,250
was not intended I mean as far as

1067
00:50:16,910 --> 00:50:13,320
Plato's Timaeus is concerned the

1068
00:50:21,170 --> 00:50:16,920
Demiurge is a a deity who is filled with

1069
00:50:23,720 --> 00:50:21,180
light he's not a dark entity at all huh

1070
00:50:26,510 --> 00:50:23,730
he looks towards the source you know of

1071
00:50:29,359 --> 00:50:26,520
everything Plato called it the good is

1072
00:50:32,150 --> 00:50:29,369
it's like an impersonal refulgent source

1073
00:50:34,970 --> 00:50:32,160
and it's filled with the beauty of that

1074
00:50:38,070 --> 00:50:34,980
and turns and then creates after the

1075
00:50:41,450 --> 00:50:38,080
manner of that now

1076
00:50:44,310 --> 00:50:41,460
this is like 4th 5th century BCE and

1077
00:50:47,820 --> 00:50:44,320
then by the time we get to the first and

1078
00:50:51,210 --> 00:50:47,830
second centuries BCE and the 1st and 2nd

1079
00:50:53,910 --> 00:50:51,220
century CE II this Demiurge is now

1080
00:50:56,310 --> 00:50:53,920
flipped over hmm

1081
00:50:59,160 --> 00:50:56,320
he's become a dark entity ignorant

1082
00:51:02,130 --> 00:50:59,170
entity that refuses to acknowledge the

1083
00:51:05,340 --> 00:51:02,140
source of his own power and thinks that

1084
00:51:07,830 --> 00:51:05,350
he is the ultimate in terms of

1085
00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:07,840
creativity everything is beholden to him

1086
00:51:13,650 --> 00:51:11,410
and everything is owed to him and this

1087
00:51:17,460 --> 00:51:13,660
darkening of the figure of the Demiurge

1088
00:51:20,280 --> 00:51:17,470
is a historical fact which I don't think

1089
00:51:23,640 --> 00:51:20,290
anyone has given an explanation of yeah

1090
00:51:25,860 --> 00:51:23,650
it's very curious it's absolutely

1091
00:51:29,160 --> 00:51:25,870
central to the understanding of how

1092
00:51:31,200 --> 00:51:29,170
things got flipped over because from

1093
00:51:34,290 --> 00:51:31,210
this point on you know you have the

1094
00:51:36,420 --> 00:51:34,300
Gnostic cosmologies all identify a dark

1095
00:51:39,270 --> 00:51:36,430
Demiurge and the need to liberate

1096
00:51:43,070 --> 00:51:39,280
yourself from him and therefore that

1097
00:51:45,920 --> 00:51:43,080
gives rise to a dark Gnosticism which is

1098
00:51:50,280 --> 00:51:45,930
acknowledging the dark Demiurge and

1099
00:51:52,830 --> 00:51:50,290
working with him ok right but this is a

1100
00:51:54,720 --> 00:51:52,840
historical phenomenon it's it was

1101
00:51:58,140 --> 00:51:54,730
certainly never like that in the

1102
00:51:59,700 --> 00:51:58,150
original platonic writing I can't say

1103
00:52:03,630 --> 00:51:59,710
one thing though and maybe this will

1104
00:52:05,699 --> 00:52:03,640
help to contextualize it is that

1105
00:52:08,069 --> 00:52:05,709
we can't just look at play-doh or we

1106
00:52:11,729 --> 00:52:08,079
cannot just look at office you know

1107
00:52:13,140 --> 00:52:11,739
there's a whole range of theories like

1108
00:52:14,729 --> 00:52:13,150
Hesiod's Theogony

1109
00:52:18,059 --> 00:52:14,739
you know the birth of all the different

1110
00:52:19,680 --> 00:52:18,069
gods and throughout the Mediterranean

1111
00:52:24,509 --> 00:52:19,690
Basin you have a lot of different

1112
00:52:28,279 --> 00:52:24,519
creation stories okay so you get a very

1113
00:52:30,539 --> 00:52:28,289
mixed bowl of starting points and

1114
00:52:35,400 --> 00:52:30,549
depending on the starting point you take

1115
00:52:38,130 --> 00:52:35,410
you end up in a different place now for

1116
00:52:40,289 --> 00:52:38,140
the Renaissance elite their key

1117
00:52:43,499 --> 00:52:40,299
influencer if I'm right it was was

1118
00:52:47,309 --> 00:52:43,509
George Jim is just better known as Plato

1119
00:52:50,359 --> 00:52:47,319
mm-hm and his conception was there he

1120
00:52:52,949 --> 00:52:50,369
took a classical Greek or Hellenistic

1121
00:52:55,349 --> 00:52:52,959
Theogony he says there's you know

1122
00:52:58,680 --> 00:52:55,359
absolute three entities you know like

1123
00:53:02,430 --> 00:52:58,690
Azusa Poseidon and and he said her karta

1124
00:53:06,089 --> 00:53:02,440
and beneath them you have a set of

1125
00:53:08,999 --> 00:53:06,099
celestial deities and a set of cathartic

1126
00:53:11,839 --> 00:53:09,009
deities and the cathartic deities are

1127
00:53:15,989 --> 00:53:11,849
ruled by Saturn and they run the planets

1128
00:53:19,349 --> 00:53:15,999
okay they run this planet mm-hmm so his

1129
00:53:23,180 --> 00:53:19,359
Theogony again is is a little different

1130
00:53:26,549 --> 00:53:23,190
from what plato and originally set out

1131
00:53:29,910 --> 00:53:26,559
but it does put just towards the primacy

1132
00:53:31,650 --> 00:53:29,920
of Saturn in the world view okay and

1133
00:53:34,589 --> 00:53:31,660
that's why I take place on earth like

1134
00:53:36,900 --> 00:53:34,599
the stepping off point from ancient

1135
00:53:38,699 --> 00:53:36,910
tradition into this what we call the

1136
00:53:41,459 --> 00:53:38,709
modern world pre-modern world of the

1137
00:53:45,180 --> 00:53:41,469
Renaissance and that's why Saturn

1138
00:53:49,499 --> 00:53:45,190
features so highly with in subsequent

1139
00:53:52,049 --> 00:53:49,509
modern history I think mm-hmm it's so

1140
00:53:55,789 --> 00:53:52,059
hard to get a real sense of why that

1141
00:53:59,189 --> 00:53:55,799
polar opposite view would be taken on

1142
00:54:01,949 --> 00:53:59,199
the Demiurge or just to say the creator

1143
00:54:03,209 --> 00:54:01,959
of the material world like it's also

1144
00:54:05,939 --> 00:54:03,219
just hard to wrap your head around

1145
00:54:08,309 --> 00:54:05,949
because this is an entity that today

1146
00:54:10,319 --> 00:54:08,319
it's like we can't really see we feel

1147
00:54:11,789 --> 00:54:10,329
like we can't see it or we feel like we

1148
00:54:14,219 --> 00:54:11,799
can't really get a handle on something

1149
00:54:17,160 --> 00:54:14,229
that's so outside of our self but they

1150
00:54:18,780 --> 00:54:17,170
seemed to find some clues to kind

1151
00:54:21,539 --> 00:54:18,790
draw conclusions honor to build a

1152
00:54:23,670 --> 00:54:21,549
personality profile back in the day and

1153
00:54:26,670 --> 00:54:23,680
then for it to go the complete polar

1154
00:54:30,690 --> 00:54:26,680
opposite way is just so curious it is

1155
00:54:33,140 --> 00:54:30,700
strange and again you know it's like the

1156
00:54:37,589 --> 00:54:33,150
answers are not gonna be found in

1157
00:54:40,520 --> 00:54:37,599
digging through these Thea genies we

1158
00:54:45,240 --> 00:54:40,530
have to think about our own specific

1159
00:54:47,910 --> 00:54:45,250
situation now and what priorities we

1160
00:54:50,039 --> 00:54:47,920
have and what we have to work on I think

1161
00:54:53,339 --> 00:54:50,049
the issue is centrally a moral issue

1162
00:54:55,260 --> 00:54:53,349
that we're faced with today mm-hmm so

1163
00:54:58,170 --> 00:54:55,270
whether you accept the existence of a

1164
00:54:58,920 --> 00:54:58,180
Demiurge or not is kind of beside the

1165
00:55:02,670 --> 00:54:58,930
point

1166
00:55:05,789 --> 00:55:02,680
mmm the energies that people work on or

1167
00:55:09,960 --> 00:55:05,799
with in practice are of a much lower

1168
00:55:13,109 --> 00:55:09,970
order so that what we're faced with is a

1169
00:55:15,859 --> 00:55:13,119
far more localized issue mm-hmm it's in

1170
00:55:18,539 --> 00:55:15,869
my perspective I see it as an

1171
00:55:21,660 --> 00:55:18,549
interdimensional penetration of this

1172
00:55:25,579 --> 00:55:21,670
reality by other realities Wow and are

1173
00:55:30,720 --> 00:55:25,589
the multitude multiple orders of beings

1174
00:55:32,640 --> 00:55:30,730
okay so in a sense the issue is far more

1175
00:55:37,200 --> 00:55:32,650
complicated but it's it's far less

1176
00:55:39,839 --> 00:55:37,210
theoretical so coming from background of

1177
00:55:42,569 --> 00:55:39,849
energy healing you tend to get the

1178
00:55:45,059 --> 00:55:42,579
extreme cases I mean it's like if you

1179
00:55:47,220 --> 00:55:45,069
work in the accident an emergency ward

1180
00:55:51,299 --> 00:55:47,230
Friday night huh okay Saturday night

1181
00:55:53,730 --> 00:55:51,309
you're going to see extreme cases and in

1182
00:55:56,730 --> 00:55:53,740
a sense energy healing also brings you

1183
00:55:59,609 --> 00:55:56,740
confront you with pretty extreme cases

1184
00:56:02,880 --> 00:55:59,619
and from that I draw the conclusion that

1185
00:56:07,609 --> 00:56:02,890
we have a say this interpenetration of

1186
00:56:10,530 --> 00:56:07,619
multiple dimensions and the crossover on

1187
00:56:13,859 --> 00:56:10,540
occasion of entities between these

1188
00:56:16,589 --> 00:56:13,869
dimensions hmm and I think the anchoring

1189
00:56:19,380 --> 00:56:16,599
is the fact that our the consciousness

1190
00:56:21,180 --> 00:56:19,390
is in my perspective a field you know

1191
00:56:24,359 --> 00:56:21,190
it's not a byproduct of your neural

1192
00:56:26,970 --> 00:56:24,369
activity right it's a feel like thing

1193
00:56:29,910 --> 00:56:26,980
which has a family context it has a

1194
00:56:31,350 --> 00:56:29,920
community it has a historical context

1195
00:56:33,110 --> 00:56:31,360
it's almost as though

1196
00:56:35,970 --> 00:56:33,120
everything thats ever thought or done

1197
00:56:38,040 --> 00:56:35,980
coexists at the same time and that's the

1198
00:56:41,280 --> 00:56:38,050
way we experience consciousness when we

1199
00:56:43,560 --> 00:56:41,290
work with it in an energetic way I'm

1200
00:56:46,050 --> 00:56:43,570
thinking in terms of constellation

1201
00:56:48,150 --> 00:56:46,060
therapy of course mm-hmm you know you

1202
00:56:50,820 --> 00:56:48,160
get complete strangers in the middle of

1203
00:56:52,980 --> 00:56:50,830
the room you put them in some positions

1204
00:56:55,230 --> 00:56:52,990
to represent family members even if the

1205
00:56:58,140 --> 00:56:55,240
family members are dead gone a hundred

1206
00:56:59,790 --> 00:56:58,150
years ago doesn't matter those people

1207
00:57:02,040 --> 00:56:59,800
will start to manifest the thoughts

1208
00:57:04,050 --> 00:57:02,050
behavior and feelings of the people

1209
00:57:07,050 --> 00:57:04,060
they're representing even though they

1210
00:57:09,390 --> 00:57:07,060
know nothing about them so you know I

1211
00:57:11,130 --> 00:57:09,400
mean I would recommend anyone I go along

1212
00:57:13,110 --> 00:57:11,140
to half a dozen sessions of

1213
00:57:15,210 --> 00:57:13,120
constellation therapy and just try it

1214
00:57:18,950 --> 00:57:15,220
out it's gonna change your views of

1215
00:57:22,620 --> 00:57:18,960
reality faster than anything I know Wow

1216
00:57:24,900 --> 00:57:22,630
so other cases where we have one-on-one

1217
00:57:26,760 --> 00:57:24,910
healing you know we have people who've

1218
00:57:29,460 --> 00:57:26,770
deceased coming through to help in the

1219
00:57:32,010 --> 00:57:29,470
healing process other times I've dealt

1220
00:57:34,410 --> 00:57:32,020
with very very very dangerous and

1221
00:57:38,430 --> 00:57:34,420
difficult entities that seem to horn

1222
00:57:43,100 --> 00:57:38,440
people Wow a very abusive relationship

1223
00:57:48,000 --> 00:57:46,080
so yeah there's some very dark stuff

1224
00:57:51,090 --> 00:57:48,010
going on and there's some very bright

1225
00:57:54,630 --> 00:57:51,100
stuff as well you know the role of

1226
00:57:57,300 --> 00:57:54,640
higher order beings is not sufficiently

1227
00:58:00,420 --> 00:57:57,310
taken account of in my experience in

1228
00:58:02,820 --> 00:58:00,430
this conspiracy world mmm-hmm people are

1229
00:58:05,790 --> 00:58:02,830
very much focused on dark side which is

1230
00:58:08,310 --> 00:58:05,800
their there's no doubt about it it's

1231
00:58:12,210 --> 00:58:08,320
dangerous it's dark but it's not the

1232
00:58:13,680 --> 00:58:12,220
whole story right and ability to cleanse

1233
00:58:15,660 --> 00:58:13,690
and purify yourself and make a

1234
00:58:19,320 --> 00:58:15,670
connection with higher order beings is

1235
00:58:22,220 --> 00:58:19,330
always an option mm-hmm it's an option

1236
00:58:26,070 --> 00:58:22,230
everyone and it brings extraordinary

1237
00:58:28,890 --> 00:58:26,080
confidence and strength yeah I mean it

1238
00:58:30,480 --> 00:58:28,900
sounds so interesting and it's something

1239
00:58:32,850 --> 00:58:30,490
I'd like to experience more and

1240
00:58:35,310 --> 00:58:32,860
experiment with more and it just seems

1241
00:58:37,050 --> 00:58:35,320
like when you trace the evolution of

1242
00:58:38,850 --> 00:58:37,060
ideas and things that have been

1243
00:58:41,910 --> 00:58:38,860
projected into the culture it's like

1244
00:58:45,120 --> 00:58:41,920
this most recent round of materialist

1245
00:58:47,309 --> 00:58:45,130
science of atheism I mean this is like

1246
00:58:50,700 --> 00:58:47,319
deception that gets the culture even

1247
00:58:52,230 --> 00:58:50,710
further away from not only the things

1248
00:58:54,390 --> 00:58:52,240
you're talking about that just seemed to

1249
00:58:55,980 --> 00:58:54,400
be part of reality structure but even

1250
00:58:57,690 --> 00:58:55,990
the elite belief systems that are hidden

1251
00:58:59,819 --> 00:58:57,700
behind the curtain it's just another

1252
00:59:01,710 --> 00:58:59,829
layer of separation it seems to be like

1253
00:59:04,109 --> 00:59:01,720
one of the biggest deceptions of our

1254
00:59:06,720 --> 00:59:04,119
time that any intelligent person would

1255
00:59:08,400 --> 00:59:06,730
be a material atheist because that's the

1256
00:59:10,890 --> 00:59:08,410
view that you know I kind of grew up

1257
00:59:12,839 --> 00:59:10,900
with and adopted and then discarded

1258
00:59:14,700 --> 00:59:12,849
after a crazy psychedelic trip that

1259
00:59:17,039 --> 00:59:14,710
showed that wasn't true but it just

1260
00:59:18,450 --> 00:59:17,049
seems like a major deception to inject

1261
00:59:20,730 --> 00:59:18,460
that type of worldview because it's

1262
00:59:24,359 --> 00:59:20,740
further and further away from the stuff

1263
00:59:26,849 --> 00:59:24,369
we're talking about yeah as well just as

1264
00:59:28,499 --> 00:59:26,859
an aside to that I think you have to be

1265
00:59:30,809 --> 00:59:28,509
careful as well when you deal with a lot

1266
00:59:33,359 --> 00:59:30,819
of conspiracy stuff it also tends to

1267
00:59:36,150 --> 00:59:33,369
depress you sure so it actually closes

1268
00:59:37,859 --> 00:59:36,160
down your awareness and it takes

1269
00:59:40,710 --> 00:59:37,869
something away from you it steals

1270
00:59:42,809 --> 00:59:40,720
something from you okay so unless you're

1271
00:59:45,420 --> 00:59:42,819
doing the compensator II work on the

1272
00:59:48,539 --> 00:59:45,430
light side unless you're engaged in

1273
00:59:50,670 --> 00:59:48,549
serious meaningful work you know like

1274
00:59:53,789 --> 00:59:50,680
you do something in the community which

1275
00:59:55,200 --> 00:59:53,799
is meaningful unless you're taken a lot

1276
00:59:58,529 --> 00:59:55,210
of care with what you eat and drink

1277
01:00:01,529 --> 00:59:58,539
mm-hmm you're going to get caught you

1278
01:00:05,069 --> 01:00:01,539
know that the strong dark currents can

1279
01:00:07,319 --> 01:00:05,079
carry most people along right so you

1280
01:00:09,779 --> 01:00:07,329
need to do a lot of recovery work on

1281
01:00:11,640 --> 01:00:09,789
yourself and people around you I guess

1282
01:00:13,470 --> 01:00:11,650
I've been very fortunate you know I've

1283
01:00:16,710 --> 01:00:13,480
had the opportunity to see some very

1284
01:00:18,809 --> 01:00:16,720
light entities at work and that has

1285
01:00:21,240 --> 01:00:18,819
encouraged me to say these things to be

1286
01:00:23,339 --> 01:00:21,250
honest sure yeah that's something we

1287
01:00:25,499 --> 01:00:23,349
definitely don't hear about that often

1288
01:00:29,009 --> 01:00:25,509
can you give us like an example or two

1289
01:00:30,839 --> 01:00:29,019
of the light side of these entities I've

1290
01:00:33,120 --> 01:00:30,849
tell you one very stress to hurry

1291
01:00:35,579 --> 01:00:33,130
because you know he baffled me as well I

1292
01:00:38,400 --> 01:00:35,589
was this was about 20 years ago I was

1293
01:00:40,650 --> 01:00:38,410
dragged along to see this guy Tom Kenyon

1294
01:00:42,599 --> 01:00:40,660
I'd never heard of him and he was

1295
01:00:45,990 --> 01:00:42,609
apparently channeling these these

1296
01:00:50,059 --> 01:00:46,000
entities called the hath ORS and my eyes

1297
01:00:52,559 --> 01:00:50,069
were just like rolled up you know so I

1298
01:00:54,589 --> 01:00:52,569
okay I went along with this gang you

1299
01:00:57,390 --> 01:00:54,599
know we're sitting there in this like

1300
01:00:58,870 --> 01:00:57,400
amphitheater and Tom's sitting on a

1301
01:01:01,599 --> 01:00:58,880
chair down on the stage

1302
01:01:04,329 --> 01:01:01,609
No and he starts singing well this guy

1303
01:01:07,049 --> 01:01:04,339
has I know ten octaves to his voice it

1304
01:01:10,660 --> 01:01:07,059
is absolutely stunning beautiful and

1305
01:01:14,079 --> 01:01:10,670
this was going on all of a sudden I saw

1306
01:01:18,609 --> 01:01:14,089
arraigned in front of him six beautiful

1307
01:01:20,200 --> 01:01:18,619
white columns of light and they were

1308
01:01:26,980 --> 01:01:20,210
like glittering you know and these were

1309
01:01:29,769 --> 01:01:26,990
like five or six meters high and it was

1310
01:01:32,589 --> 01:01:29,779
like an overlay on reality that's a

1311
01:01:34,990 --> 01:01:32,599
strange thing and then these figures

1312
01:01:37,660 --> 01:01:35,000
these columns just drifted out off the

1313
01:01:41,349 --> 01:01:37,670
apron and up through the audience and

1314
01:01:44,799 --> 01:01:41,359
disappeared you know and laid on in in

1315
01:01:47,170 --> 01:01:44,809
this is not a performance but whatever

1316
01:01:49,599 --> 01:01:47,180
Tom Kenyon is doing with these energies

1317
01:01:51,999 --> 01:01:49,609
is apparently is getting advice and

1318
01:01:54,519 --> 01:01:52,009
stuff somebody in the audience say well

1319
01:01:56,650 --> 01:01:54,529
what if these hath ORS look like and Tom

1320
01:01:59,279 --> 01:01:56,660
immediatel when they manifest he says

1321
01:02:02,910 --> 01:01:59,289
you see them as tall by columns of light

1322
01:02:06,249 --> 01:02:02,920
that's exactly what I saw over there so

1323
01:02:09,099 --> 01:02:06,259
hmm why I was chosen to see these things

1324
01:02:12,069 --> 01:02:09,109
I don't know I have a bit sensitive to

1325
01:02:15,339 --> 01:02:12,079
energies but there they were there they

1326
01:02:17,319 --> 01:02:15,349
were Wow and the advice they give you

1327
01:02:19,660 --> 01:02:17,329
know I checked Tom's stuff every now and

1328
01:02:22,089 --> 01:02:19,670
again it's all about ascension it's all

1329
01:02:24,460 --> 01:02:22,099
about you know cleansing purifying the

1330
01:02:26,200 --> 01:02:24,470
channels and so on and you know it's all

1331
01:02:26,650 --> 01:02:26,210
good clean stuff there's no doubt about

1332
01:02:29,769 --> 01:02:26,660
it

1333
01:02:31,779 --> 01:02:29,779
but if these higher-order beings are

1334
01:02:33,730 --> 01:02:31,789
indeed there and it looks like to me as

1335
01:02:37,299 --> 01:02:33,740
though they are then there's some

1336
01:02:40,509 --> 01:02:37,309
restrictions on what they can do on this

1337
01:02:43,660 --> 01:02:40,519
plane and I would suggest that each

1338
01:02:48,249 --> 01:02:43,670
person's moral or ethical behavior is

1339
01:02:50,710 --> 01:02:48,259
the core or the limiting factor hmm and

1340
01:02:52,960 --> 01:02:50,720
remember Martin Luther King said you

1341
01:02:55,749 --> 01:02:52,970
know the trajectory in the arc of the

1342
01:02:59,680 --> 01:02:55,759
universe is long he says but it bends

1343
01:03:01,720 --> 01:02:59,690
towards justice and that's what I see in

1344
01:03:05,470 --> 01:03:01,730
the constellation therapy that we do

1345
01:03:08,400 --> 01:03:05,480
that the core disturbances in reality

1346
01:03:11,980 --> 01:03:08,410
arise from some form of injustice and

1347
01:03:12,740 --> 01:03:11,990
when you explicate that injustice when

1348
01:03:18,050 --> 01:03:12,750
you correct

1349
01:03:20,900 --> 01:03:18,060
you harmonize the fields so there's an

1350
01:03:24,070 --> 01:03:20,910
ongoing task that energy healers are are

1351
01:03:26,930 --> 01:03:24,080
embarked upon on a personal on a

1352
01:03:30,160 --> 01:03:26,940
community level we're trying to create

1353
01:03:33,290 --> 01:03:30,170
that justice we're trying to eradicate

1354
01:03:34,880 --> 01:03:33,300
the cramps and the squeezes and

1355
01:03:37,520 --> 01:03:34,890
everything within the fields of

1356
01:03:40,430 --> 01:03:37,530
consciousness arising from injustice and

1357
01:03:44,510 --> 01:03:40,440
it's injustice seems to me the core

1358
01:03:46,460 --> 01:03:44,520
characteristic of the elite agreed and

1359
01:03:46,940 --> 01:03:46,470
such a noble goal that you're working

1360
01:03:51,080 --> 01:03:46,950
with

1361
01:03:53,240 --> 01:03:51,090
so this is the work Greg you get on and

1362
01:03:58,750 --> 01:03:53,250
you do the work and in doing that work

1363
01:04:02,540 --> 01:03:58,760
you rise above the fear and pessimism

1364
01:04:04,190 --> 01:04:02,550
arising from the darkness well said yeah

1365
01:04:06,560 --> 01:04:04,200
you can only stare into the abyss so

1366
01:04:08,300 --> 01:04:06,570
long without doing so the other side

1367
01:04:09,970 --> 01:04:08,310
yeah you're gonna fall in if you look

1368
01:04:12,980 --> 01:04:09,980
longer haha

1369
01:04:14,420 --> 01:04:12,990
man I I just love this I feel like I

1370
01:04:17,330 --> 01:04:14,430
could do it all day but I gotta let you

1371
01:04:18,920 --> 01:04:17,340
go sometime and I just really enjoyed

1372
01:04:21,290 --> 01:04:18,930
the book and the conversation it's

1373
01:04:23,270 --> 01:04:21,300
broken down quite well but it still

1374
01:04:24,800 --> 01:04:23,280
requires so much historical context and

1375
01:04:27,110 --> 01:04:24,810
a lot of the players were pretty new to

1376
01:04:29,150 --> 01:04:27,120
me so it is just a great book that

1377
01:04:30,980 --> 01:04:29,160
unlocks so many new threads and Peaks

1378
01:04:32,600 --> 01:04:30,990
behind the curtain during that era of

1379
01:04:35,120 --> 01:04:32,610
the Italian Renaissance and I think

1380
01:04:39,050 --> 01:04:35,130
there's just so much to see behind it so

1381
01:04:40,310 --> 01:04:39,060
great work and you know before I let you

1382
01:04:42,530 --> 01:04:40,320
go I did want to also ask you because

1383
01:04:44,990 --> 01:04:42,540
you are an energy worker and that's the

1384
01:04:46,640 --> 01:04:45,000
expertise you have it did that come into

1385
01:04:47,960 --> 01:04:46,650
play at all when you were studying the

1386
01:04:49,550 --> 01:04:47,970
deck when you put your hands on this

1387
01:04:51,410 --> 01:04:49,560
thing we're talking about the energy of

1388
01:04:55,810 --> 01:04:51,420
it I mean did you experience that

1389
01:04:58,640 --> 01:04:55,820
firsthand yeah a number of times I had a

1390
01:05:01,280 --> 01:04:58,650
huge energy coming through Greg I mean I

1391
01:05:04,310 --> 01:05:01,290
was like paralyzed for like four days it

1392
01:05:06,320 --> 01:05:04,320
was so intense and none of the energy

1393
01:05:08,600 --> 01:05:06,330
workers around me could help could move

1394
01:05:10,850 --> 01:05:08,610
it you know one of them tried you know

1395
01:05:13,270 --> 01:05:10,860
and they almost fainted they had to go

1396
01:05:15,290 --> 01:05:13,280
out of the room it was that intense so I

1397
01:05:17,780 --> 01:05:15,300
wasn't worried that something was

1398
01:05:20,660 --> 01:05:17,790
driving this and the way the clues came

1399
01:05:23,810 --> 01:05:20,670
to help me break this code sometimes

1400
01:05:26,240 --> 01:05:23,820
really strange you know right I mean I

1401
01:05:28,520 --> 01:05:26,250
I'm not a great classic skull

1402
01:05:30,859 --> 01:05:28,530
or something for God's sakes I study

1403
01:05:33,560 --> 01:05:30,869
philosophy okay University but I didn't

1404
01:05:37,310 --> 01:05:33,570
study ancient philosophy man well you

1405
01:05:38,960 --> 01:05:37,320
could've fooled me yeah sometimes I just

1406
01:05:41,900 --> 01:05:38,970
felt like I was being led by the nose

1407
01:05:44,570 --> 01:05:41,910
you know sure stick your face here look

1408
01:05:46,910 --> 01:05:44,580
at this read that read this put two and

1409
01:05:50,089 --> 01:05:46,920
two together okay let's move on listen

1410
01:05:53,089 --> 01:05:50,099
you know I and this was the results and

1411
01:05:57,740 --> 01:05:53,099
don't ask me why this is manifested at

1412
01:05:59,210 --> 01:05:57,750
this time I don't know yeah like you

1413
01:06:01,070 --> 01:05:59,220
mentioned before we really started

1414
01:06:02,720 --> 01:06:01,080
recording that the story seems to want

1415
01:06:06,349 --> 01:06:02,730
to be told at this particular moment

1416
01:06:10,670 --> 01:06:06,359
absolutely it's an it's a big energy

1417
01:06:12,230 --> 01:06:10,680
behind this fascinating so also as we're

1418
01:06:14,690 --> 01:06:12,240
wrapping things up can you run remind

1419
01:06:16,250 --> 01:06:14,700
the people where to get the book where

1420
01:06:17,420 --> 01:06:16,260
to check out your website and any of the

1421
01:06:18,920 --> 01:06:17,430
other work you're doing that people

1422
01:06:21,440 --> 01:06:18,930
might want to follow up on I'm sure

1423
01:06:24,290 --> 01:06:21,450
they're very intrigued right now the

1424
01:06:26,210 --> 01:06:24,300
go-to people are scarlet imprint who I

1425
01:06:28,990 --> 01:06:26,220
worked with on this project and they've

1426
01:06:32,359 --> 01:06:29,000
done a superb job in designing the book

1427
01:06:33,200 --> 01:06:32,369
and in their general curatorship of this

1428
01:06:35,540 --> 01:06:33,210
whole process

1429
01:06:38,870 --> 01:06:35,550
it's been excellent I mean a pleasure to

1430
01:06:41,510 --> 01:06:38,880
work with them so scarlet imprint com is

1431
01:06:44,030 --> 01:06:41,520
the go-to place the deck of cards

1432
01:06:46,310 --> 01:06:44,040
perfect reproduction for the first time

1433
01:06:48,440 --> 01:06:46,320
in five hundred years with the imagery

1434
01:06:50,210 --> 01:06:48,450
coming from the Brera gallery itself is

1435
01:06:53,599 --> 01:06:50,220
just coming online they'll start

1436
01:06:56,510 --> 01:06:53,609
shipping in ten days or so some of the

1437
01:06:59,720 --> 01:06:56,520
work I've done on ritual on various

1438
01:07:01,730 --> 01:06:59,730
aspects of entities is in the para

1439
01:07:03,980 --> 01:07:01,740
anthropology journal it's a

1440
01:07:07,820 --> 01:07:03,990
peer-reviewed journal and I put it on my

1441
01:07:10,520 --> 01:07:07,830
academia.edu page so I was like three

1442
01:07:12,650 --> 01:07:10,530
essays there some bits of the book some

1443
01:07:15,260 --> 01:07:12,660
of the essays that were formative very

1444
01:07:18,109 --> 01:07:15,270
formative in writing the book are also

1445
01:07:19,820 --> 01:07:18,119
up there so you can read those for free

1446
01:07:22,339 --> 01:07:19,830
yeah I think you just need a

1447
01:07:24,680 --> 01:07:22,349
registration as for my personal website

1448
01:07:27,230 --> 01:07:24,690
it's a disaster I'm gonna have it

1449
01:07:29,150 --> 01:07:27,240
rebuilt I hope it's not you know how

1450
01:07:31,280 --> 01:07:29,160
these things get out of date so I'm not

1451
01:07:33,070 --> 01:07:31,290
gonna recommend that for anyone at this

1452
01:07:36,320 --> 01:07:33,080
point

1453
01:07:38,359 --> 01:07:36,330
cool cool well you are right scarlet

1454
01:07:39,620 --> 01:07:38,369
imprint I mean in an era of mass

1455
01:07:42,890 --> 01:07:39,630
production

1456
01:07:44,720 --> 01:07:42,900
have preserved an artisan ship that you

1457
01:07:46,640 --> 01:07:44,730
just don't see often anymore

1458
01:07:48,890 --> 01:07:46,650
it's a beautiful thing it's great that

1459
01:07:50,600 --> 01:07:48,900
you know you've written such amazing

1460
01:07:53,210 --> 01:07:50,610
words and they were able to complement

1461
01:07:55,390 --> 01:07:53,220
that with a great book

1462
01:07:58,600 --> 01:07:55,400
so it's just awesome present

1463
01:08:01,160 --> 01:07:58,610
presentation is beautiful isn't it is so

1464
01:08:03,320 --> 01:08:01,170
all-around amazing stuff you've

1465
01:08:05,720 --> 01:08:03,330
definitely contributed to our scholarly

1466
01:08:08,060 --> 01:08:05,730
understanding of the occult beliefs of

1467
01:08:10,400 --> 01:08:08,070
the elite and I salute you for it take

1468
01:08:12,860 --> 01:08:10,410
care out there man thank you very much

1469
01:08:16,790 --> 01:08:12,870
Greg it's been a pleasure you got it

1470
01:08:19,850 --> 01:08:16,800
take care man you too sweet sweet

1471
01:08:22,910 --> 01:08:19,860
stranger things people Peter Mark Adams

1472
01:08:25,250 --> 01:08:22,920
and the game of Saturn what a great

1473
01:08:26,990 --> 01:08:25,260
subject and whenever someone asks me if

1474
01:08:29,030 --> 01:08:27,000
it's possible that the elite might have

1475
01:08:31,340 --> 01:08:29,040
come from a reptilian bloodline of some

1476
01:08:33,860 --> 01:08:31,350
kind or do I think the elite make deals

1477
01:08:35,780 --> 01:08:33,870
with dark forces I'm gonna say don't

1478
01:08:38,060 --> 01:08:35,790
take my word for it let's just see what

1479
01:08:41,000 --> 01:08:38,070
the Italian Renaissance elite had to say

1480
01:08:43,070 --> 01:08:41,010
for themselves it's provocative and

1481
01:08:45,080 --> 01:08:43,080
granted you can't see the art on the

1482
01:08:46,850 --> 01:08:45,090
cards in an audio show but you can

1483
01:08:49,550 --> 01:08:46,860
always use the links in the show notes

1484
01:08:51,590 --> 01:08:49,560
or just google the deck it is really one

1485
01:08:54,230 --> 01:08:51,600
of my favorite types of episodes to do

1486
01:08:55,910 --> 01:08:54,240
where we kind of examine something that

1487
01:08:58,280 --> 01:08:55,920
can move the needle in terms of making

1488
01:09:00,890 --> 01:08:58,290
the case for some far-out positions and

1489
01:09:02,900 --> 01:09:00,900
really what is more far-out than a deal

1490
01:09:05,240 --> 01:09:02,910
with the Demiurge to bypass the

1491
01:09:06,770 --> 01:09:05,250
reincarnation cycle and rule over a man

1492
01:09:09,410 --> 01:09:06,780
as the management class of this

1493
01:09:12,170 --> 01:09:09,420
manifestation of course I can't say

1494
01:09:14,060 --> 01:09:12,180
exactly why the deck was made but given

1495
01:09:16,370 --> 01:09:14,070
the context of the times it's clearly a

1496
01:09:17,990 --> 01:09:16,380
very special piece and I love that Peter

1497
01:09:21,230 --> 01:09:18,000
really let me run with the speculation

1498
01:09:24,140 --> 01:09:21,240
we pushed it today but you know that's

1499
01:09:27,350 --> 01:09:24,150
what we do here Peter though what a

1500
01:09:29,600 --> 01:09:27,360
knowledgeable guy great writer I just

1501
01:09:32,180 --> 01:09:29,610
loved it to find this sort of physical

1502
01:09:34,070 --> 01:09:32,190
evidence for a continuity to elite power

1503
01:09:36,740 --> 01:09:34,080
and a consistency of occult beliefs

1504
01:09:39,050 --> 01:09:36,750
among their ranks it's mind-blowing I

1505
01:09:41,300 --> 01:09:39,060
also think this one pairs really nicely

1506
01:09:43,820 --> 01:09:41,310
with Chris Noel's last week two of my

1507
01:09:45,770 --> 01:09:43,830
favorite shows lately for sure if you

1508
01:09:47,720 --> 01:09:45,780
don't sign up for Plus now I guess you

1509
01:09:49,880 --> 01:09:47,730
just maybe never will because these are

1510
01:09:51,680 --> 01:09:49,890
the shows that I'd be looking for in the

1511
01:09:53,070 --> 01:09:51,690
second half of today's we got deeper

1512
01:09:55,350 --> 01:09:53,080
into the deck and sub

1513
01:09:58,110 --> 01:09:55,360
ways we focused in on the Trump cards

1514
01:09:59,970 --> 01:09:58,120
and why they point to northern Africa we

1515
01:10:02,490 --> 01:09:59,980
broke down the mysteries of the suit

1516
01:10:04,860 --> 01:10:02,500
cards the decks codes and multiple

1517
01:10:07,800 --> 01:10:04,870
levels of encryption the science of the

1518
01:10:10,860 --> 01:10:07,810
her monk ulis demonic fellatio cannot

1519
01:10:12,630 --> 01:10:10,870
forget demonic fellatio also the details

1520
01:10:15,540 --> 01:10:12,640
of the cards that reference human

1521
01:10:18,210 --> 01:10:15,550
sacrifice what that's all about how Troy

1522
01:10:21,120 --> 01:10:18,220
was once referenced to as the realm of

1523
01:10:23,520 --> 01:10:21,130
the serpent born also the court cards

1524
01:10:26,520 --> 01:10:23,530
and the emphasis on half reptilian

1525
01:10:28,230 --> 01:10:26,530
origins for certain elite bloodlines how

1526
01:10:31,020 --> 01:10:28,240
to tell if you were pledged to a dark

1527
01:10:33,300 --> 01:10:31,030
entity in a previous life the idea of

1528
01:10:37,080 --> 01:10:33,310
the elite pledging large groups of

1529
01:10:39,360 --> 01:10:37,090
people to demons in mass rituals dragons

1530
01:10:42,210 --> 01:10:39,370
also just to ice the cake and the

1531
01:10:45,090 --> 01:10:42,220
importance of positive polarity for good

1532
01:10:47,160 --> 01:10:45,100
measure I can loved it can't thank Peter

1533
01:10:48,900 --> 01:10:47,170
and Scarlet imprint enough also Gordon

1534
01:10:51,240 --> 01:10:48,910
for having him on rune soup and filling

1535
01:10:54,450 --> 01:10:51,250
me in on just how fascinating this study

1536
01:10:57,240 --> 01:10:54,460
was in other news THC is doing another

1537
01:10:59,520 --> 01:10:57,250
live show with tinfoil hat this time I'm

1538
01:11:01,320 --> 01:10:59,530
supposed to be doing stand-up so we'll

1539
01:11:03,180 --> 01:11:01,330
see what I can come up with in a week's

1540
01:11:05,550 --> 01:11:03,190
time with no prior experience and

1541
01:11:08,580 --> 01:11:05,560
crippling anxiety but it is what it is

1542
01:11:11,190 --> 01:11:08,590
so remember remember the 8th of November

1543
01:11:12,510 --> 01:11:11,200
at the La Jolla Comedy Store and this

1544
01:11:14,370 --> 01:11:12,520
time I don't have to drive three hours

1545
01:11:15,600 --> 01:11:14,380
back and forth to LA which is a

1546
01:11:17,670 --> 01:11:15,610
beautiful thing we're gonna leave that

1547
01:11:20,520 --> 01:11:17,680
to Sam Tripoli Ryan Davis and Eddie

1548
01:11:22,320 --> 01:11:20,530
Bravo who will all be there I got one

1549
01:11:24,480 --> 01:11:22,330
more episode of the higher side to get

1550
01:11:26,850 --> 01:11:24,490
out to you before the end of October and

1551
01:11:28,560 --> 01:11:26,860
it is more of just a fun one the

1552
01:11:30,300 --> 01:11:28,570
original plan was to run through a bunch

1553
01:11:32,400 --> 01:11:30,310
of paranormal stories for the guy who's

1554
01:11:35,100 --> 01:11:32,410
been an author in that world for decades

1555
01:11:37,920 --> 01:11:35,110
but as soon as we got going and he noted

1556
01:11:40,050 --> 01:11:37,930
that he was 11 when Roswell happened and

1557
01:11:42,000 --> 01:11:40,060
also had an out-of-body experience I

1558
01:11:44,520 --> 01:11:42,010
actually just thought it was really

1559
01:11:46,710 --> 01:11:44,530
interesting for me in a paranormal

1560
01:11:49,170 --> 01:11:46,720
archive sort of sense to just hear the

1561
01:11:51,420 --> 01:11:49,180
anecdotes and musings of a guy in his

1562
01:11:53,460 --> 01:11:51,430
80s who's lived and watched the

1563
01:11:55,680 --> 01:11:53,470
paranormal and conspiratorial wheelhouse

1564
01:11:58,050 --> 01:11:55,690
for literally twice the length of my

1565
01:11:59,520 --> 01:11:58,060
entire life I also have a hell of a

1566
01:12:01,980 --> 01:11:59,530
Halloween story to tell you on that

1567
01:12:02,370 --> 01:12:01,990
episode myself but I'm getting out of

1568
01:12:04,320 --> 01:12:02,380
here

1569
01:12:06,210 --> 01:12:04,330
I'm still trying to convince the wife to

1570
01:12:06,540 --> 01:12:06,220
be my handmaid from Halloween for anyone

1571
01:12:08,549 --> 01:12:06,550
who

1572
01:12:11,189 --> 01:12:08,559
the show because I could just wear a

1573
01:12:13,080 --> 01:12:11,199
suit which is nice and easy but I don't

1574
01:12:16,290 --> 01:12:13,090
think she's a huge fan of the

1575
01:12:18,120 --> 01:12:16,300
implication I guess I understand but I

1576
01:12:20,549 --> 01:12:18,130
got to keep making my case and learn how

1577
01:12:22,530 --> 01:12:20,559
to write jokes so I'll see you soon

1578
01:12:24,600 --> 01:12:22,540
your move Saturnian brother hood

1579
01:12:30,600 --> 01:12:24,610
billionaire bloodlines and Demiurge ik

1580
01:12:42,399 --> 01:12:35,470
no one knows but it's like to be the bad

1581
01:12:56,399 --> 01:12:48,310
behind blue eyes and no one knows what

1582
01:13:05,520 --> 01:12:56,409
it's like to be hated to be fated to

1583
01:13:17,540 --> 01:13:05,530
telling only lies but my dreams aren't

1584
01:13:27,589 --> 01:13:19,890
[Music]

1585
01:13:31,070 --> 01:13:27,599
only lonely since they exposed me

1586
01:13:36,220 --> 01:13:31,080
I'm THC

1587
01:13:41,060 --> 01:13:36,230
[Music]

1588
01:13:52,790 --> 01:13:41,070
no one knows what it's like feel these

1589
01:13:58,600 --> 01:13:52,800
feelings like I do and I blame you no

1590
01:14:07,790 --> 01:13:58,610
one bites back is hard on their anger

1591
01:14:17,110 --> 01:14:07,800
love my pain one can show through but my

1592
01:14:27,790 --> 01:14:17,120
dreams aren't as empty as my conscience

1593
01:14:34,849 --> 01:14:27,800
[Music]

1594
01:14:34,859 --> 01:14:39,160
see

1595
01:14:39,170 --> 01:15:12,180
[Music]

1596
01:15:35,339 --> 01:15:20,879
but my dreams aren't empty as my

1597
01:15:42,960 --> 01:15:35,349
conscience seems to be I have wait only

1598
01:15:47,910 --> 01:15:42,970
since they expose me on THC

1599
01:16:00,310 --> 01:15:52,780
no one knows what it's like to be the

1600
01:16:00,320 --> 01:16:03,820
behind